Chris Welch uses Designer Pro 365 to illustrate all 3rd level concepts

Thursday, 29 January 2009

Alphabet Soup - The Second Helping










One Woman’s Answer: What To Do When Your Life Resembles Alphabet Soup!, by Page Prewitt

This is the second and final part of Page’s superb article, “One Woman’s Answer—What To Do When Your Life Resembles Alphabet Soup!” Part 2
Confusion between Soul and Spirit
You are not just spirit and body (figure 1). Your “bugaboos” and your problems and difficulties in life come mainly from the third part of you: your soul. Let me hastily add here, though, that not only do your problems stem from your soul, but also your joys and exhilarations spring from your soul. Your very experience of life on this earth is because you have a soul that operates in full capacity. But until you understand it, the negative capacity of your soul messes up your life so badly that you don’t know how to enjoy the positive capacity of your soul. This is because you are jerked around and tossed here and there, not by your soul, but by what the enemy tells you about your soul.
Your soul has two capacities (figure 2). This is vital to know. One capacity of the soul is emotion; the other is reason. You will notice on page 12 that I have written the word feel under emotion; and under reason, I have written the word think. This is what the soul can do: it can feel and it can think.
The spirit has three capacities. One of these is desire, through which we express real love (the Greek agape, the love of God). Our human spirit is also where, even apart sometimes from mental reasoning and understanding, we know. The remaining capacity of the spirit is will, which has its fruition in choice. Free choice originates in God, and we, made in His image, are endowed by our Creator with like freedom of choice.



The Real Problem: Satan’s Lie
If you have been seeing yourself as an “independent” person and acted from that belief, realize that you have gone for Satan’s lie about the believer. You have gone for Satan’s lie about yourself. God only sees union with Himself; Satan sees and sponsors this divided outlook. This is the sin of unbelief— unbelief about who God says you really are.
God has said that He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him (I Cor. 6:17). He has also said that He is the vine and believers are the branches. He is their owner, and believers are His bondslaves. He is the deity placed in the temple. We, the believers, are the temple to manifest and display Him. He is the husband, furnishing the seed to the productive wife. Believers are the wife, wedded to this One. He is the treasure, and we, the believers, are the vessels that contain Him.
The branch, the vessel, the temple, the wife...all are dependent. The branch is dependent upon the vine, the vessel upon the contents, the temple upon the deity, and the wife upon the husband.
The analogy of the owner and the slave shows that the master is the one who owns the slave, and as in Romans 6:17, the slave is never his own owner or his own operator.
So, if you are a believer, to even “see” yourself as an “alone-I” who has the ability to operate himself—even that seeing is sin. The Scripture says when we find sin present with us to confess it. So the remedy is just to confess it. Call it sin and confess it. By confession I don’t mean “sackcloth and ashes.” Confession is no more than agreeing with God. It’s as if God says, “Look what you have been doing. You have let the enemy get you confused and mixed up. See it. Confess it.” It’s as simple as that.

The worst sin you will ever find out you have committed is the sin of wrong believing about yourself. And in doing that, you have allowed Satan to misuse you. That is what is wrong with every non-redeemed person, and with every born-again person who commits sins, minor or major—small ones that just “mess up” your life or blatant Biblical sins. Serious sins like theft, murder and adultery always stem from wrong seeing about ourselves as believers.
The result of living like this is not a life of sin-consciousness, but a life of true liberation. Bondage lies in wrong believing...to not see yourself as who you really are, one with Him. Wrong believing about yourself will immobilize you.
Wrong believing about yourself can cause conflict in a marriage, in the work place, with your children and in other situations. Satan, in your “independent self” believing, manages to get his hooks into your “members.” The Bible talks of believers in these terms: “sin in my members” (Rom 7.23). “Members” means your soul and body (your “flesh”) and not your spirit. Satan gets his hook in there and he is the confusion. He is the cause of the confusion. I’m not talking about the feeling of confusion I discussed earlier, but the confusion that results from the conflicts caused by wrong believing.
A Practical Example
Let me give you an example of how something seemingly small and insignificant in your life can be completely immobilizing to you. This past summer when my husband and I were in North Carolina, his car needed washing. Being in a very small resort center, there was no automatic wash place like I am used to back home. The place I took the car to was one of those where you plug the money in and then squirt off your own car. The coin slot was one of those flat things you lay quarters in and then slide in, where some mechanism picks up the change and deposits it, and then you have access to the hoses and water.
I put in the required three quarters and the machine only took two of them; the other was left in the slot. Of course it would not operate without the full amount, and I did not have another quarter. The way the machine is made, there is a small hole beneath the quarters. So I decided to reach in and just pop my quarter out. Well, I got my quarter, but my finger got stuck. It was the same kind of situation as when you’re having trouble getting a ring off.
I said to myself, “This will come out in just a second.” But then I realized my finger was not coming out. It was stuck! You know sometimes you can get a stick caught underneath your automobile, and if you pull hard, you can just jerk it out? So I thought, “Just jerk it out. It doesn’t matter if it hurts a little.” Then I re-thought: “That is your human finger! You can’t just jerk it out!”
I could not go anywhere to get help. Nothing but the tip of my finger was caught and yet I could go nowhere. I was immobilized. All kinds of redeeming thoughts went through my mind: “If only I had some soap; there’s a restaurant nearby—I can scream and maybe they’ll hear; maybe someone else will come in for a car wash.”
Finally, I said very meaningfully, “God, you have got to get my finger out.” I gave a soft jerk, and out it came. Later that week I realized what a great illustration this was of how one little sin thing in my life can completely immobilize me.



So in Conclusion
If you are a believer, the Spirit in you is going on all the time—know ing, loving and willing. What you are thinking and feeling is also going on simultaneously in your soul. Make the distinction between these two. And never deny your feelings; that will make you psychologically sick. But realize that you are not your soul. You, at your center, are spirit—one with the Lord and Creator of the universe.
Yes, there are times when I look around—at others amid perplexing situations, or even within myself—and all I see for a moment is “alphabet soup.” But, this does not occur often. When it does, I retrace my steps to see where unbelief entered.
Sometimes this takes only a moment or two. Once in my experience, it took several months, and I spent those days in what I now call my “black hole” of unbelief.But on that occasion and on less serious ones now, I check myself by claiming that I am Christ in my form, that I am an expression of the Living Savior. I acknowledge to myself that I today live, not as the illusory “independent Page,” but as “Christ-Page.” I step out of unbelief into faith.
This article is available in booklet form and can be ordered from Zerubbabel press.
As at 2001 - Page Prewitt lives in Boone, NC, where she is a full-time Teacher/Sharer at our Total Living Center. She has dedicated most of her adult life to bringing to others the pure message of Christ in you as you as taught to her firsthand by her mentor Norman Grubb. She has been a true example of the “hope of glory” that comes as a result of allowing Christ to live one’s life. Page is the mother of four adult children and the grandmother of eight young grandchildren, all of who live on her same street.


















This article in two parts, although not finely composed art, nor delivered with any strong sense of anointing in the manner of Thy Kingdom Come by Ern Baxter in 1975,still has the basic simplicity and elegance of Einstein's E=mc2.When we look back it will probably rank with other outstanding 20th Century achievements as one of the most important writings of the century. It takes the complicated ideas of Norman Grubb, who was a Cambridge undergraduate with decades of missions experience, and with a woman's insight is able to condense it down into its main insight :no independent self and Christ in you as you. Many female blogreaders will probably read this one text and understand one whole year of my outpourings, exclaiming..."Chris , well why didn't you say so..." Guys, these women make you sick don't they!!!




Alphabet Soup - Part One



One Woman’s Answer: What To Do When Your Life Resembles Alphabet Soup!
By Page Prewitt
Foreword by Norman Grubb
The obvious meaning of such a title for this booklet as “Alphabet Soup” is that our lives are in some form or other a proper mix-up. Some things you can “spot and select”; lots you can’t. Is there such a thing as a life which is a clear, straight line? Don’t all lives appear to be a mix-up? Is there really the possibility of a straight line?
This is why I think this booklet is a rarity. I like it being totally personal, not a preachment, but the secret of knots tied and untied, and how to have them untied. And Page Prewitt takes us straight through from A to Z in sharing how the knots were unraveled in her own life, and then how to lay the finger on the many knots in every life until they are untied. Page so unmixes the mixed-up soup that we too are enabled to lay our fingers straight on those mix-ups, the reasons for them and the way to unmix them. She keeps it plain by concentrating on her own answer to the secret, showing how others can do the same.
She starts with a page or two on personal salvation and how she herself came clear in receiving Christ as what we call a sinner saved by grace. So the booklet is based on the new birth experience as a given fact, and it is from there onwards that Page handles the mix-up of the soup’s ingredients and comes out with the “straight line” which all of us hunger to have and know as the straightness of our own lives. The rest of the booklet then deals with these mix-ups which in various ways tear our lives to pieces and in plain honesty are in capital letters in all lives, which are just as much knotted in those who call themselves Christians as those who do not.
The answer is plain enough in Bible terms, though not so often referred to, and still less often so thoroughly untied. To get that answer we have to unravel what we might call the “self knots” in each of us. The whole weight and value of the booklet is in showing what the knots are and how they get untied, so that we may boldly then lay a forger on those same knots in our brother Christians.
So thoroughly does Page handle this, and with certain simple diagrams, that it would be a tautology for me to take up details in a foreword. Very simply, she focuses on the exact meaning, right interpretation and right uses of the subdivision of the human self which is lightly mentioned in Hebrews 4:12 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 in three words: spirit, soul and body. What is the self, how do these three parts interact, and how do I get them rightly and fixedly “tied up” so that I can be bold in pointing to that same problem and its solution in nearly all my brethren?
This booklet tells about some of the quite desperate wrestlings Page herself experienced before coming to where, with unhesitating boldness, she can lay a finger on that same knot in you. And just because that takes us to the depths of the depths and drastically uncovers hidden areas which the god of the false misuse of self has so cleverly covered over, it is lamentably the fact that the vast majority of declared and born-again believers turn back at that spot. There is the same major Cross in it for us as there was for Jesus himself.
Alphabet Soup puts the most profound truth on this whole vital “spirit, soul and body” problem and its solution in simple terms. And here it is important to take note that there are quite a lot of folks these days who will use a correct term for what we are talking about and yet still not know what that really means. This included Page herself, which forced her to find the right and ultimate answer. And you’ll find that this little booklet does give that answer. And it is then that at last the soup sort of “unmixes itself,” and each item can be both edible and enjoyed.
We have really come to where Page Prewitt probably is the leader over all of us in a thoroughgoing explanation of what is meant by these three terms— what each is and how they properly mingle—so that I can boldly say I am Christ in my form. How that subtle self of ours has at last been torn out of Satan’s hold on it since the Fall, and in its place we find what a self in focus is. As James says, “Let patience have her perfect work that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”
This account shows precisely the opening of that “secret of secrets” to Page and explains her God-given ability to use her Spirit rapier to pierce camouflages in others, which has caused many to turn away just as they did with Christ, The Self. Page shows our human selves in their ultimate purpose— the eternal relationship for which we were created, then fell from, and now to which we have been redeemed.
So I greatly recommend this booklet to every hungry reader who does want to get the soup unmixed and enjoy each particle in its right proportion, and be able boldly to point that fact out to his fellow Christians. If you really want to know the true meaning of who you are as a self—and that’s the only final meaning to our life’s search—this booklet can bring great light to you.
Norman Grubb
Part One
Life for me had become a hopeless search for a reason to live. My search was rewarded when Norman Grubb, a retired 80-year-old missionary from England, began to share with me what the Bible said about me. I was thrilled and shocked by what I saw and heard. My dilemma, liking what I heard but not daring to believe it to be true, plunged me into a search to check out Norman’s teaching. As a result of that search, I became convinced that what Norman taught was what the Scripture taught—that real life was God living out through His children.
Knowing this to be true did not make it a reality in my life. I was desperate for Christ to take over my mess of a life and live it for me. My focus was always on “me” and how terrible I was. Then one evening, while standing at the stove in my kitchen, the Lord said to me, “Dare to say about yourself what I say about you.”
It was at that moment that I first said I am Jesus Christ in His Page Prewitt form. As I said that, I appeared to myself anything but what I thought Christ would look like. I had been waiting and waiting to look and feel differently before I would declare myself to be the Page form of Christ. God’s word came and I obeyed (the obedience of faith— our only requirement—Rom. 1:5).
I said it and believed it. I don’t know why—desperation, I guess—but I took it “hook, line and sinker.” Since that day I have never doubted the truth of it. God has been faithful and has never let me down.
God in His precious love for me knew I was desperate and sent Norman with His truth in the nick of time. I believe, had I not caught on when I did, I would have eventually killed myself or would be in a mental institution today.
Knowing that there was another here (Christ) to do for me what I had proved I could not do for myself (live life) began to put me at ease. The pressure, the condemnation and the selfhate began to lift. I began to experience a freedom and a poise that I had never known. It was now up to Him to live and be how and what He wanted to be through me. I had failed miserably, so I had nothing to lose.
My outer circumstances didn’t suddenly become wonderful. Life as a wife and mother remained hard. My husband continued to dislike me and felt free to say so. Dealing with my four children was still very difficult, but I began to see it all in a new way. I started to see that things were exactly how God wanted them to be. Life was not a nightmare that had trapped me; it was God’s situation for me. He was in my circumstances and was in me to handle whatever circumstances He sent my way. I was Christ in my form, not because I said so, but because the Bible said so.
I also knew there was a time, before I became a Christian, when I wasn’t that and that I became “Christ in my form” at the time of my conversion. But before that day in my kitchen, I had only been aware that I had been born again, that I was saved. When I made my statement it was the first time that I acknowledged aloud—to myself and to God—that as a Christian, this is who I am.
So let me go back to the “beginning.”
How I Came to Christ
From my early childhood, I had a desire to know God and a desire to be a right person. I knew I didn’t know God, and I wanted so to know Him and to go to Heaven. I knew I wasn’t “right” and wanted so badly to be right. My mother would say to me: “Little girl, you had better change your ways.” I wanted to change my ways—but how?
I finally concluded that probably only priests, missionaries, ministers and nuns (and possibly my saintly grandmother) did right, knew God and were going to Heaven. There didn’t seem to be much hope for my becoming a nun, but I thought that maybe one day when I was old, I would be like my grandmother—wear my hair in a bun and sit pleasantly doing needlework.
One time as a teenager, spending the night with a friend, she asked me, “Page, are you saved?” Too embarrassed to ask what she meant, I vaguely nodded assent. Whatever did being “saved” mean?
When I was seventeen years old, living in Coral Gables, Florida, I found out. I was invited to a Youth for Christ meeting and heard Ephesians 2:8-9 quoted: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
There was that word again— ”saved”!
The result of hearing that was that I soon received Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and was “born again.” I was saved!!
But until I found that being saved meant more than just “going to Heaven” and that who I had become when I was born again was Jesus Christ in my form, my salvation did little for me but assure me of Heaven. Life for me was as if I had written the seventh chapter of Romans. What I didn’t want to do, I did; what I hoped I would do, I didn’t. The bondage of being a Christian was as bad as the misery I had in my search for God.
College,Marriage and a Family
After I had moved away from Florida, gone through college in North Carolina, married an attorney, moved to Mississippi and borne four children, I finally discovered the living truth of Galatians 2:20: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God.” And I myself began to really live.
It was not so much that my life situation got better (for actually it got worse!), but that I experienced a total change in my way of seeing myself and life around me. And even though there was much that brought me to near desperation, there is nothing about those years I would want to have been changed. I see it all as God’s perfect purpose and plan.
Some time after I first said that I was the Page form of Jesus Christ (who I am), the day came when I needed an explanation for how—although I knew I was an expression of Christ—sin and failure played such a mammoth part in my experience.
I had found the basic answer concerning my life years before when I saw the truth of who I really am. Now, God was getting ready to show me the next step: what to do when knowing and saying who you are is not enough.
I have found the key to living this Christian life as Paul said it could be lived. Taught from the Scripture, and with the help of Norman Grubb and countless friends, I have, by positive and negative “pulls,” come to see the missing explanation.
No Independent Human Self
In a word, for me, it has been finding out there is no such person as an “independent self.” Today I not only affirm who I am, but I have been privileged by the Spirit to lead many other believers into this same acknowledgment. Bill Bright, of Campus Crusade for Christ, used to say that until you see those you introduce into the Kingdom bring in others, you haven’t experienced real in-depth fruitbearing. I even have “grandchildren” in the faith of knowing that they are expressions of the Living Christ.
Now, after years of experience in real-life situations, I can say I know how to fully operate as a “knower.” I “know” who I am and I now know how to operate as who I am.
The term “independent self,” as such, is not found in the Bible. The idea, however, pervades the Scriptures in the lives of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament believers. We find it in the teachings of Paul and in the words of Jesus. Jesus said it, Paul explained it, John confirmed it. And I dug until I found the hidden treasure.
This truth has been available for all believers, and there have always been those who saw it. In our age, however, there is a resounding emphasis on the self. We can say that since Freud in more modern times, and even as far back as Aristotle, attention has been drawn to the self. But today’s quest is almost a hallmark of our times.
So it seems appropriate that the Holy Spirit is giving to God’s people the true answer to “know thyself.”
This is what I have found for myself. I already knew God and had found Him always complete. What a joy (what a relief!) to finally know myself, and to find that I, too, am complete. As Peter says, “His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life” (2 Pet. 1:3). And James adds that we are “perfect and complete, lacking in nothing” (James 1:4).
At a recent conference in Blowing Rock, North Carolina, I was asked to speak and began by saying, “I want to talk about when saying ‘who you are’ is not enough.” Over the last few days there, I had talked to individuals whose lives were not working out to their own satisfaction. They told me, and I knew it to be true: “I know and say who I am. What is the problem?”
I could see there were problems in their lives, and they would proceed to relate them in depth. There seemed to be a dilemma over life, even when they could see and know and say that they are Christ in their forms. In fact, the longer their experience in this was, the more frustration they had when life just was not “working out.”
As you read this, if you are someone who has been saying, “I know who I am and I know what it is to be a believer,” but somewhere you have a “sticky wicket” that you can’t work out—in your interpersonal relationships or in some situation that you are part of—then, as a friend of mine often quips: “LISTEN UP!”
We Are Body, Soul and Spirit
Knowing I was Christ in my form and at the same time feeling all kinds of negative feelings was very confusing to me. How could fear, anger, hate, etc., and Christ all be fit together in this person I called “me”? It began to come clear to me when I saw a simple illustration in a Watchman Nee book. I have added to his illustration.
The circles give a picture of us as persons (Figure 1). We are tripartite— made in three parts: body, soul and spirit. The body is the house for soul and spirit. The soul is where we experience feelings and thoughts—emotions and reason. Our spirit is the part of us that is created in God’s image and is the seat of desiring, willing and knowing.
Before we can appreciate who we are in Christ, we need to understand who we were before Christ became our personal Savior -in other words, before we became born again.
In our non-Christian state, we were joined at our spirit center with the spirit of Satan (Figure 2). You probably don’t think this can be true, because when you think about Satan, you immediately think extreme evil. Satan is not necessarily always some killing, stealing, horrible person. The evil that he is (really, all the evil there is—period) all boils down to one simple thing: self for self. All the evil there is originates here: self for self.
How Evil Began
Satan, originally Lucifer, was created to be God’s light bearer. He would proclaim God. God did not make Lucifer into Satan. Satan did this by his own choice. In effect, he said “I will be equal to God, I will be like God, I will be God unto myself.” (Compare references from Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.)
There is no truth in the belief that a created being can ever be equal to his Creator. Lucifer came out of God, and in his original form he came out as a self-giving self because he was “bearing” God’s light. But by his own choice of believing wrongly about himself and rejecting that “light,” he became a fallen form of God. He became a misused form of the self giving, all-loving being of God. He became Satan, a self-forself, an “I’ll be for myself” distorted form of God. God himself had eternally said “no” to being that, and in this God cannot deny Himself or lie. His eternal, fixed choice was to be forever the God of outpoured love. Lucifer chose the opposite.
Sometime after Satan’s fall, the Bible tells us that Adam fell and that all persons come into this world in the form of fallen Adam. So, as the circle represents, at their spirit center, all persons are joined to the spirit of Satan from birth.
Now to you, the reader. Before you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, your spirit was in a “hook up” with Satan. Everyone you know who is not a Christian still is. The characteristic in all non-born-again people is self....self -for- self—an “I’m for myself” attitude. Even in their good deeds, the root is self. They are expecting to get something back for themselves.
If this is an unacceptable view to you, just begin to watch them, and sooner or later you will see this. For example, you will hear the whine of “I was so nice to her, and do you know what she did?...”
People do not like to hear this about those who are not Christians, and I don’t particularly like to mention it. I mention it, however, for two reasons. First, so you will realize who these people really are by nature. Second, because your heart and mind needs to be broken for others. You need to be more concerned. This concern includes (if they have not received Christ) your husband’s best friend, your golf buddy, the friend you lunch with, your precious sister or just “good ole Mary Sue” who waits on you at the drugstore.
Now let’s look at the circle that represents the “born-again” person (Figure 3).
We notice that the body of the Christian contains a soul, and a spirit that is now hooked up with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. How did this hookup occur? The Bible says it happened through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. You ask, “What has that got to do with me...Jesus Christ, in history, dying on a cross?” You might add, “I know that the blood of Jesus washed away my sins, but how does it work that it gets a switch going and gets my spirit ‘unhooked’ from the spirit of Satan and now ‘hooked up’ (united) with the Holy Spirit? How does that work?”
“One Died for All, Therefore All Died”
The Bible says we “died with Him” (Rom. 6:6) and “in Him we are dead” (2 Cor. 5:14). What does that mean? What does that mean to you? When I used to think about it, all I knew were those words. They made no sense, and I had no understanding of what they truly meant. Even though the Bible talked about me being dead, I knew that I was very much alive. One of the reasons it meant nothing much to me was that I was also ignorant then of the fact that before my conversion I was joined to this other spirit—this wrong spirit—and needed to get rid of that spirit.
The way spirit gets out of a person is through death—which is not annihilation or ceasing to be. When you die, the spirit goes out of your body. So when Jesus Christ took us to the cross in Himself, what he did for us was take on this sin nature. In some mysterious way—don’t ask me to explain it to you—for our sake “He made Him to be sin, [He] who knew no sin” (2 Cor. 5:21). He became sin for me! And He became sin for us so that “we might be made the righteousness of God in Him” (also 2 Cor. 5:21).
Jesus Christ took on that sin spirit and He died, so the sin spirit went out. And when we take Him as our Savior, His death works the same thing in us. The way to get a spirit out of a person is for that person to die. So Jesus took that spirit of sin, died on the cross, and that spirit went out. But did it go out of me when Jesus Christ went to the cross? NO. It went out of me when I, by faith, took the work He did on Calvary to be my own.
So he died on the cross, and I died in Him. In some mysterious way—I don’t understand how—the Bible just says in Him I died and in Him you died too. In that death, the old spirit of sin went out. And death is only the means to life.
The body of Jesus lay in the grave for three days. There was no spirit in it, being dead. Then the Bible says that God’s own Spirit quickened Jesus’ body and resurrected Him. The Bible also says that the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead now therefore lives in you. That very same Spirit quickened you and brought you back to life. This is the new birth of John 3.
So that is how you, at your spirit center, became joined to the Spirit of God. Your spirit becomes joined to the Spirit of Christ through this work of Christ. In I Corinthians 6:17 we are told that he that is joined to the Lord is “one spirit with Him.” End of Part One...(details at around 2001)Page Prewitt lives in Boone, NC, where she is a full-time Teacher/Sharer at our Total Living Center. She has dedicated most of her adult life to bringing to others the pure message of Christ in you as you as taught to her firsthand by her mentor, Norman Grubb. She has been a true example of the “hope of glory” that comes as a result of allowing Christ to live one’s life. Page is the mother of four adult children and the grandmother of eight young grandchildren, all of who live on her same street.

yes I am Link fault corrected

For anyone accessing Yes I am by Norman Grubb in the links section, the faulty page settings have now been corrected. Thanks to those at union life.

Wednesday, 28 January 2009

Some background sad news

Christine lost her Dad last night. I'm posting this to keep you informed in case posts are a bit erratic. Over the last few days I have been caught up in piano work.

Saturday, 24 January 2009

Passages of the Word - Time release capsules that are set to go off as we go through the Tabernacle?

This post is a question not a statement.
In Eastern philosophies they often mention this principle...kind of turns up in any karate/kung fu movie worth its salt...."when a pupil is ready...then the teacher appears."
Are there Bible verses hidden by the roadside into God that are cleverly primed to go off as we reach certain points.....kind of Lara Croft Tombraider-style...or Sonic the hedgehog or whatever.

Lydia posted Isaiah54: Sing o barren woman sing
This bomb went off for me when I was carried down to Emsworth by the scruff of the neck by a well-known English prophet. It was either this or stoning...so I took the former. Only to find God simply wanted to lavish his grace on me....and then one of the brothers brought this passage including "Enlarge the Place of Your tents".

After which, while enjoying 2ndleveldom to the full, God brought people my way who piece by piece put the whole 3rd level picture jigsaw together. One set of time release verses kicked in at this time : in Psalm 118 5From my (F)distress I called upon the LORD; The LORD answered me and (G)set me in a large place. 6The LORD is (H)for me; I will (I)not fear; (J)What can man do to me? 7The LORD is for me (K)among those who help me; Therefore I will (L)look with satisfaction on those who hate me. 8It is (M)better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man. 9It is (N)better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in princes. 10All nations (O)surrounded me; In the name of the LORD I will surely (P)cut them off. 11They (Q)surrounded me, yes, they surrounded me; In the name of the LORD I will surely cut them off. 12They surrounded me (R)like bees; They were extinguished as a (S)fire of thorns; In the name of the LORD I will surely cut them off. 13You (T)pushed me violently so that I was falling, But the LORD (U)helped me. 14(V)The LORD is my strength and song,
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I remember receiving this in my spirit and thinking well how could this be true
in such a nice church with such a strong Presence of God....?

Hmmm.....let's just say it was true...the rest is history. Emmanuel Ferradura went through the same thing in Spain, but when he visited us in Emsworth....with a "trying not to look too crucified" expression, he still managed to bring a teaching on how corn is made into bread
and as in the Feast of Tabernacles...this bread was going to feed the world. (Instead of asking me about this, post him on Facebook...but your answer may be in Spanish).
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I just find it so interesting that Lydia Joy and Dan are revelling in this scripture right now.
For me...it is the embarcation point on the boat to the 3rd level. Cos you see the 3rd level is Huuuuuuge....and you need to expand your tents. Think MEGA!!!
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So to return to my original point . Can I just say that we have a lady in our church who when she brings a scripture, is always crying. Jacqui for those in the know. And the thing is this. Each verse of the Bible is so loaded with dynamite and grace and power....have we really got a verse at all, if it hasn't left our eyes totally welled up, and with us just feeling wasted!!!! So back to the soaking post.....MUSIC is the nearest thing we have to a spirit language in physical format. So it is no wonder that we are to use it to meditate and swoosh around on our insides these great verses of the Bible.

Friday, 23 January 2009

Only a biology teacher would do this


John Stevens is exposing his week's fast to the eagle eyes of his biology students and recording it all on this blog

Read about thin places too while you are at it.

Thursday, 22 January 2009

List of Recommended Favorite Soaking Cds from friends on Facebook

This post is dedicated to Penny Scott of Goldhill Baptist Church. This was the one Roy Castle went to.
THIS IS A RESOURCE POST THAT CAN BE ADDED TO BY ANY READER WHO HAS A GOOD SUGGESTION

I want to thank all the people that responded to my Facebook request - even if in the end I had to address each one's wall individually which took some time. I also want to thank Dan for addressing this subject

I don't want anyone to be under any illusion here though. Apart from the tracks that the leaders sometimes use in our meetings...I have never heard a soaking CD. Certainly not right through.

Don't get me wrong...what I have heard I love. Also, we have hours and hours of recorded material from Florida last year. Nope....but there is something interesting here. 2 of my friends had to be told what soaking was...it went like this.

Rachel Fieldhouse -

What are 'soaking CDs'? I tend to spend more time listening to classical chill collections as this really helps me to unwind while enjoying the beautiful location we live in - glass of wine in hand!
Chris Welch wrote at 10:39
Anna in America asked me that one - and she knew but not by that name. Remember in Grimsdells Lane, where after we had broken through in praise a bit...we'd go silent for a bit waiting on God...and maybe Ron would prophesy something or we'd begin praying out prophetically...or I'd get a song.....or it would just feel right to share a scripture or... share revelation...well nowadays...the sensitive musicians who play/sing/prophesy during this phase are recording this on to Cds...which is music to soak in the Presence of God to. What we learned in Ron and Pam's house, I learned further in my time with Martin Franke in Germany(he had just learned it off Judson Cornwall while going around with him)...then I took this into Exeter with me...see Val Fane....after this, when I arrived in Emsworth, the guy who had taught Judson Cornwall in the first place - Ed Miller turned up...and Emsworth was established in running meetings like this....what Peter Stott now calls "Key of David " meetings
Anna Andrews wrote at 22:37
You are the only other person besides my friend who has talked about soaking Cds. Are they just a particular type of music you enjoy? Can you give me some examples....

Chris Welch wrote at 22:46
anna just watch my wall...Ursula has already answered. You know the music Jordi,Timotee and others played when we were seeking the Lord....maybe on our faces.Well it is this,but has developed to be quite lengthy prophetic singing.In extreme cases like Josh Mills, you get inundated with gold dust if you are anywhere near him at the time.



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So the following friends on Facebook- see my friends ...but who may or may not know "soaking" as a phrase, nevertheless could soak you quite thoroughly are Anna Andrews, Emmanuel Ferradura (one amazing Argentinian guy) Jean Marc Dunys( I knew him while he was called Timotee) and his wife Ruth, Lois Fryatt, the whole Wentworth dynasty of which Helen Rubio ,Anna and Elizabeth are just a fraction, Elizabeth's hubby Jose Rubio and probably if pressed Rachel Fieldhouse herself...it was in her house that we were all inundated by the power of the Holy Spirit in April 1972.
Thing is....this was an earlier wave!! We were still discovering things that today seem commonplace. Who'd have thought you could franchise the middle bit of meetings!!! Surely only the Americans would come up with that!!! They've franchised water!!!. Only leaves air still"blowing in the Wind"....but give it time.

I would love to insert an early bit of soaking music from 1984 Emsworth Glory Conference, featuring Marcus Roberts:piano Mike Thom:keyboards and myself on flute. But the input on this computer is not working. And in those days it was all tape cassettes. Maybe I'll be able to include it some time.

Here are the responses.



Wendy Wilbraham: There are loads that I can recommend. Yesterdays was JoAnn McFatter - The Invitation. Some excellent ones also are; Alberto and Kimberly Rivera-Live Soaking Sessions 1 and no 2 has just been released but haven't heard it yet, Captured and The Longing are others by same people. Also, Kelly Warren - Here With You, Beautiful or Heaven's Whisper. Here ... With You particularly good. Is that enough for now or do you want me to write you out a list? Just ordered a large amount into J Source! Hope that helps.

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Ursula Kuba wrote at 22:34
Chris! 100% Cool of the evening by Isi de GersignyOpen Heaven by Isi de GersignyKari Jobe - The more I seek you?Ummm....Alberto and Kimberly Reviera...Thats about it! I actually need to ask Jamie how to put a CD on my blog so you guys can listen in....
Wall-to-Wall - Write on Ursula's Wall
Ursula Kuba wrote at 22:35
ooohhhhh....Joshua Mills - the Drinkand Joanne McFatter....

Chris, thanks! This is awesome. ANyways....thought I'd let you know, I have updated my blog with 2 (very loosely called videos) of Isi's music.Video 1 ..... Video 2It was the only way I could figure to actually load the flipping things on to the blog. So I will make some more...sooon, they are just a tad timeconsuming! lol But there they, a start for people who want to hear them!

25 January 2009 01:38



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Jose Ascua wrote at 23:08
Deep unto deep by David johnston....recommendable..

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Lydia Grewell wrote at 23:28
I don't have any cds. I do have a link on my blog that I love, called soaking net..........

see Lydia Joy...yup that's her
Lydia part 2Hey Chris,I am glad you brought this up! I decided to search for music online and I found 2 more sites that I like with a lot of great variety of soaking music and some of it is easily downloadable to Itunes, or MP3 - http://www.soakingwithapurpose.com/http://www.secretplaceministries.org/pages/genre/soaking-worship-music.html

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Ian Dickinson wrote at 18:56
chris hi, anything by godfry birthill & i will always be father to you. sorry but we have already seen oz, good film, see you soon.
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Helen Rubio wrote at 14:13
Julie Meyer- I fall in Love, Misty Edwards - Eternity, Todd Bentley - Soaking in the secret place plus many of the others mentioned here!

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Rosie Esseveld wrote at 12:59
Hi Chris, well I really love Alberto & Kimberly rivera's "Captured" album for being encouraged, Leonard Jones & Bruce Dailey have a soaking album called Deep Waters- which is purely instrumental (mainly violin & keys/strings).

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Dan Bowen wrote at 10:00
Hey Chris, must admit I am TERRIBLE at putting aside time for soaking. My one and only is Isi de Gersigny's "Open Heaven" - it's amazing! I need to almost sedate myself before I will sit down and just bask in the glory!
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Anna Dominy wrote at 09:59
anything from alberto and kimberly rivera, ruth fazal (think thats her surname)
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Sheila Atchley
Hi Chris!
Just got your "soaking CD's" request. I'm a bit "old school" in my soaking...I love a VERY old (1998) CD called "Why We Worship: Intimacy". Oooooh, it is fantastic. I also use a CD called "Names of God" - the names of God spoken,with authority, to light instrumental accompaniment. Lastly, truthfully, my husband has a real Psalmist gift - when he sits and plays his guitar to the Lord...I get to soak to live music, and honestly, it is the most effective way for me. God loves it when Tim plays and sings to Him!

Emma Bunday wrote at 08:57
Favourite soaking CDsDavid Johnston - Deep unto deep (esp. good for guys)Alberto and Kimberly Rivera - 1. The Longing & 2. Deeper Still Jo McFatter - the Invitation - wow!good idea Chris - loving reading about everyone elses selections.
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Julie - See her blog - Hi Chris, somehow I misunderstood exactly what you were asking when you left the comment on my blog. Anyway, great idea! I don't have many cds that would fit the category maybe but I've had some pretty amazing times just laying back and listening to Kim Walker's "Here Is My Song". Every song goes into an extended spontaneous worship time which is amazing. Of course in order to soak I generally have to park my car in a parking lot somewhere and look like a fool if any happens to walk by lol!

Colin Urquart has helped breed some interesting people

Colin Urquart is one of two people I particularly listen to on Premier Radio, the London Christian station that peters out at Hindhead mid-sentence!!!! The other show is Witness Lee, comrade alongside Watchman Nee.

All that to say Urquart's work has helped spawn some interesting people over the years. One is John Stevens. In case you did not catch his comment I am repeating it here:

A lecturer at Roffey once threw this remark into the ring 'the christian life is a series of revelations about what Christ achieved for us at our conversion'. I've pondered on the scriptures at the end of Luke and beginning of Acts where post-resurrection Jesus 'opens their minds to the meaning of the scriptures concerning himself'. Usual thing: just when they'd got it buttoned up and come to terms with having breakfast with a resurrected Messiah He goes and does that! And then in Acts Peter 'gets it' about the gentiles. Same for us. For me the sudden realisation that in Christ I am something that is impossible for us humanly - to be simultaneously a servant and a son - shattered my son-centric faith and released me to love others more freely.We can get an inkling of something in Christ that seems just out of our reach and then 'pow' the penny drops, we see, and it's easy. The preliminary stage is awkward, frustrating, no-one can help us, we're locked into a struggle, not making much sense to ourselves, unable to articulate much to God except staring at scriptures that seem to be impenetrable and then kazoom revelation and we're there! And then the learning begins. Your biblical heroes get updated, all is new. At the top of my list now is Abraham's servant. After years of trusted servanthood he is entrusted with finding a wife for Isaac. Once he is successful he fades into the background job done. And Abigail who knelt down before David and said I am a servant of your servants and won his heart.So about the sacramental article. I'm sure that will stir up the 'yes but I don't quite get it if I'm honest' reaction in readers. But one day the Spirit will do His work and take that which is His and declare it to us' and we'll realise that it's not something we have to do but that Christ has achieved it already - it just has to dawn on us and then watch the fruit grow! Enjolyed the article. Keep it coming.

Sunday, 18 January 2009

Oswald Chambers and the Third level

Sometimes as you look through classics you are like a pig hunting for truffles which is a Norman Grubb phrase I used the other day with Dan. Who would have thought that Oswald Chambers would spell out the three phases of growth so plainly and so accurately in the chapter below? Here they are:
  1. By the Cross of Christ I am saved from sin,



  2. by the Cross of Christ I am sanctified;



  3. but I never am a sacramental disciple until I deliberately lay myself on the altar
    of the Cross, and give myself over emphatically and entirely
    to be actually what I am potentially in the sight of God,viz., a member of the Body of Christ.




In this last stage there are some points. a) it is deliberate. No one can do it for us.And we do it freely when we are ready. There comes a time when as it was said in Hitchhiker's Guide to Christianity...we arrive at Psalm 110 :3 Your (F)people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; (G)In holy array, from the womb of the dawn,





b)it is entire. Not bits here and there. We see the vision and it consumes us. We may not feel able to give our whole self....but even here we give ourselves freely to the One Spirit whose speciality is to prepare the offering. He can get us there. All we supply is a basic willingness to be made willing.





c)that's when we really become part of the Body of Christ. Our body becomes His Body...but really the truth is we, individually, begin to function in harmony with and simultaneously with all the other parts of His corporate Body on Earth and in heaven.





I said to Stuart Wentworth about my time in the second level...that we were in fact building on jelly. I had spent 10 entire years of my life sowing into what I thought was the Body of Christ. I had left University early for the privilege...effectively spitting in the face of human qualifications provided in those days without cost....to spend each and every day sharing my life with others full-time in the church. Only to realise that it was all only the second level. And that the Body of Christ really only begins properly to function in the 3rd Level. After what Jorge Pradas decribed as each individual's own "Identification with Christ". We enter one by one....but we go out the other side as a fully functioning corporate being.





So for this reason the Ecumenical Movement towards Unity is essentially one mad piece of delusion. Because corporate unity can only work once each and every individual has answered before God this issue: "Unite my heart to fear/respect/sanctify Your Name". You cannot make a unity out of loads and loads of schizophrenic individuals. But once a whole load of individuals know who they are in Christ...unity is a doddle. And once the Ecumenical brigade understand the hours and hours of wasted time in meetings they have spent, they will be completely pig sick. As Florida showed....you can have all these things in a moment , once you really want them!!!!





So before getting into the chapter entitled "Sacramental Christianity" can I fend off the irritation that Sacrament will cause by saying. 1.Sacrament is not in the Bible. But two of the main ones are real enough!! Vehicles of grace. Baptism in water and the Lord's Supper or Communion. There are also others. Laying on of hands. Giving people cloths and hankies. Even our church, when it rolls out a long cloth like a river or a canopy...so people can experience God's grace.





But all these are nothing compared to the real thing. Which is you and me, with Christ inside, moving around, doing His stuff. This is the meaning behind the Furniture in the Holy of Holies. The Lord's Supper in the Holy Place, with the Candle sticks....is really only the "practice run", not the real thing itself. The real thing is Christ in you as you.




2.What is the difference between a "sacrament" and something from the pit of hell...the delusion that we as independant beings can somehow buy a bit of grace? What is the difference between a Toronto Fire tunnel, and say the Austrian village Corpus Christi festival where the bones of hopefully genuine miracle-moving saints are wheeled round the neighbourhood in a cart...Elisha's bones-ish style? What is the difference between Morris Cerullo or Rheinhardt Bonnke anointing his partners with oil, and a Baptist Church mass-dunking its 13 year olds because they are of age....or the Catholic Church mass-massing their 8 years olds at 1 st Communion.What is the difference between Moses raising up the serpent in the wilderness, and the subsequent worship of the same object? What is the difference between Gideon's ephod, and his subsequent shame in creating a religion out of it?




The only difference as far as I can tell is one thing: The Now Word of the Lord. Doing things entirely by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. That is the only difference as far as I can tell. A fire tunnel could become just as deathly. Just give it time!!!





So the first sentence about "sacramental" here is:





  1. to the point.


  2. incredibly deep


  3. immediately addresses dead religion from the word "go".


Here it is then : "Sacramental Christianity" from "Conformed to His Image" by Oswald Chambers

THE word " sacramental" must be understood to mean
the real presence of Christ being conveyed through the
actual elements of the speech and natural life of a
Christian. " Everyone therefore who shall confess Me
before men," that is, confess with every part of me that
" Jesus Christ has come in the flesh "—come, not only
historically, but in my flesh. (This is a quotable quote Dan)
1. SACRAMENTAL SERVICE
But far be it from me to glory, save in the cross of our Lord
Jesus Christ, through whom the world hath been. crucified unto
me, and I unto the world. GALATIANS vi, 14, R.V. marg.
By the Cross of Christ I am saved from sin, by the
Cross of Christ I am sanctified; but I never am a sacra-
mental disciple until I deliberately lay myself on the altar
of the Cross, and give myself over emphatically and entirely
to be actually what I am potentially in the sight of God,
viz., a member of the Body of Christ. When I swing clear
of myself and my 'own consciousness and give myself over
to Jesus Christ, He can use me as a sacrament to nourish
other lives. Most of us are on the borders of consciousness,
consciously serving, consciously devoted to God; it is all
immature, it is not the life yet. Maturity is the life of a child
—a child is never consciously childlike—so abandoned to
God that the thought of being made broken bread and
poured-out wine no longer unseals the fountain of tears.

When you are consciously being used as broken bread and
poured-out wine you are interested in your own martyrdom,
it is consciously costing you something; when you are laid
on the altar of the Cross all consciousness of self is gone,
all consciousness of what you are doing for God, or of what
God is doing through you, is gone. It is no longer possible
to talk about " my experience of sanctification " ; you are
brought to the place where you understand what is meant
by our Lord's words," Ye shall be My witnesses." Wherever
a saint goes, everything he or she does becomes a sacrament
m God's hands, unconsciously to himself. You never find
a saint being consciously used by God, He uses some
casual thing you never thought about, which is the surest
evidence that you have got beyond the stage of conscious
sanctification, you are beyond all consciousness because
God is taking you up into His consciousness; you are His,
and life becomes the natural simple life of a child. To be
everlastingly on the look-out to do some work for God
means I want to evade sacramental service—" I want to
do what I want to do." Maintain the attitude of a child
towards God and He will do what He likes with you. If
God puts you on the shelf it is in order to season you. If
He is pleased to put you in limited circumstances so that
you cannot go out into the highways of service, then enter
into sacramental service. Once you enter that service, you
can enter no other.
2. SACRAMENTAL FELLOWSHIP
Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it
abideth alone, but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit
JOHN xii, 24.
If you are wondering whether you are going on with God
examine yourself in the light of these words. The more
spiritually real I become, the less am I of any account,
I become more and more of the nature of a grain of wheat ;
falling into the earth and dying in order that it may bring
forth fruit. " He must increase, but I must decrease,"
I only decrease as He increases, and He only increases
in me as I nourish His life by that which decreases me.
Am I willing to feed the life of the Son of God in me ?
If so, then He increases in me. There is no pathos in John's
words, but delight, " Would to God I could decrease more
quickly! " If a man attracts by his personality, then his
appeal must come along the line of the particular work he
wishes to do; but stand identified with the personality of
your Lord, like John the Baptist, and the appeal is for
His work to be done. The danger is to glory in men—
" What a wonderful personality! " If when people get
blessed they sentimentally " moon " around me, I am to
blame because m my heart I lay the nattering unction to myself
that it is because of my way of putting things ; they begin
to idealize the one who should be being made broken bread
and poured-out wine for them. Beware of stealing souls
for whom Christ died for your own affectionate wealth.
3. SACRAMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fin up
on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ
in my flesh for His body's sake, which is the church.

COLOSSIANS i, 24.
By " sacramental responsibility " understand the solemn
determination to keep myself notably my Lord's, and to
treat as a subtle temptation of the devil the call to take on
any responsibility that conflicts with my determined identi-
fication with His interests. God's one great interest in men
is that they are redeemed; am I identifying myself with

that interest ? Notice where God puts His disapproval on
human experiences, it is when we begin to adhere to our
conception of what sanctification is, and forget that sancti-
fication itself has to be sanctified. When we see Jesus we
will be ashamed of our deliberately conscious experience
of sanctification, that is the thing that hinders Him, because
instead of other people seeing Jesus in me, they see " me "
and not Jesus. We have to be sacramental elements in His
hands, not only in word but in actual life. After sanctifi-
cation it is difficult to state what your aim in life is, because
God has taken you up into His purposes. The design for
God's service is that He can use the saint as His hands or
His feet. Jesus taught that spiritually we should " grow
as the lilies," bringing out the life that God blesses.

Saturday, 17 January 2009

Miscellany and apology

If you want to see a post of victory http://ern-baxter.blogspot.com/2009/01/when-he-bares-his-teeth-winter-meets.html


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Apology

In A Third Level look At Ministry http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/01/third-level-look-at-ministry-iii.html in the comments section I got so excited I used the word "babes".

Can I underline that this was said in a jokey fashion. The only legitimate relations in the Kingdom are "mothers,fathers,brothers, sisters,sons or daughters in the faith" and these are only valid in as much as we seek to do the will of God. So even these are not valid in their own right, but only in the context of moving onward to the Throne of God together.

One of the distinctives of "cult leaders" is inappropriate relationships. If there is any of that still lying around in my spirit...then let's get it out in the Name of Jesus. It is true that what I am saying is still pretty rare...but if I'm pushing the envelope my desire is to be an Ed Miller type taxi-driver to the throne of God, a waymarker with an arrow going straight through his middle.(There's a verse for that you Bible scholars Psalm 84:5 "Blessed are the men whose strength is in Thee...in whose heart are the highways to Zion.") This I believe is the Holy Spirit technical manual description of any minister . Cult leaders build pyramids based on fear like their father the Mafia boss himself...the Devil. Anyone wanting to study a cult from the inside read Children of God's founder's daughter's book: The Children of God the Inside Story by Deborah Davis

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I've never been too sure about girls!!!

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If any of you are ever depressed download this file of David Carr speaking to Salt and Light Leaders. look down page to 4/3/07

You will learn the difference between the English and the Afro ministries, how you should use Horlicks, the nature of UK Songs of Praise on TV, How to speak brummie, and many things you should not otherwise know...oh plus loadsa miracles. Sounds like Dan will probably never be depressed again...but if he is...this one's for him....and Leonard will probably love this guy!!!!

Friday, 16 January 2009

I got back from a Stuart Townend tuning session to find this...

It has several important rings to it. Some, totally unknown to Sally Roberts, who has only started reading this blog since Facebook...so she will be unaware of the Nicholas and Pam connection with the northern countries. She is also unaware that is was Sally Prideaux who i wrote about here in Dan's blog (I'll try and find it...it was the dream Sally had about me getting out of the "charismatic/2nd level " swimming pool and beginning to walk,never to return. She shared this completely at variance with every other leader, who had gathered together to speak the word of Miriam and Aaron getting leprosy over me, for my "rebellion". Dan is familiar with that type of thing.
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Sally Roberts email. Christine and I met her and her 2 "grownups" by Godsident on Havant Station on our way to London Zoo with Ben - Hence the connection with Don about Rock hopper Penguins by the way.

Hi Chris
I couldn't open the music yet, will need to download the DVD X programme later.

Just thought it was a good time to tell you about the dream I had sometime ago. I originally wrote it in a letter to you dated 29/08/07 but I felt very strongly at the time that it would only be appropriate when you finally received the message. So here it is:

I will write it exactly as it is in the letter:

'I am barely awake but I am overwhelmed to write to you. Rarely this has happened in my life when I have felt so strongly to get a message to someone through a dream.

In my dreams, I always remembered your address in Emsworth but on waking , the details had gone.

Recently, I have had several dreams urging me to contact you but the last two nights, the dreams have said a lot more. I dreamed a lot about my time in Bible House, which is in retrospect, unusual for me - especially as it is now over 23 years ago! The dream at first was showing me that I was about to see the fruition of my greatest dreams and of course it was one of those fabulous dreams, never to be forgotten.

As the dream moved on I spent the remainder of the dream looking for you. Even recalling old dreams within the dream, of how long I have been searching for you with vain attempts to get this message to you. In this particular dream I seemed to walk for miles, constantly asking people if they had seen you but no-one had.

Then I saw you in church, not Emsworth but Frank and Sally were also there. In the dream I was a little cross with them as they knew that I had been looking for you. You expressed concern to them, that I was not myself today, so you invited me for a cup of tea but I was still desperately trying to give you the message that I had carried for so long. (though at this point I did not know what the message was!)

Finally, we arrive at Frank and Sally's house for tea, and there are 2 or 3 children there, aged about 9 or 10, though not Frank and Sally's children. As I went to give yo the message, the children challenged my knowledge of languages. The young girl spoke to me in Finnish but I did not understand, the boy then spoke in another language. When I asked what it was, he said, 'Polish!'

I spoke a few words in Russian, which seemed to impress but alas no-one understood Russian! I was asked to speak in French or Spanish but I was reluctant as I knew that you were fluent in both and I had forgotten most of mine!

Again, I tried to speak the message, but the words would not come - Suddenly I awoke and spoke out loud, 'ok! ok! I'll write. I'll get the message to Chris!'

A scripture came to my mind in my semi-conscious state, in the dream I knew where in the Bible it was written and I knew there was a second half to the scripture, however, now half-awake I only knew the first half but I knew the receiver of the message would know the second half.

I recall these words, ' The Lord will make the way ahead clear for you....' The second half was about the rewards you would reap on doing this and it was a list of rewards but I do not recall anything else.

I also felt that I was not alone in the meaning of the first dream, that the message, 'you are about to realise some of your greatest dreams' said to me, was also meant for you.'

I know this may sound batty and maybe I am just getting old; the message could have been anything. I have studied dreams in psychology and I am down to earth and understand that often dreams are often our minds sub-consciously trying to tell us something about ourselves but this dream was different; I have had a rare few in my lifetime like this - it seemed different. It was always a matter of urgency and seemed to keep on recurring.

If it all sounds a load of baloney, just bin it, I would not be offended but I know I would like to sleep better, now that for my part I have past the 'message' on!!!

God Bless
Sally

Wednesday, 14 January 2009

Why Dan's post was important

This is simply to carry on from the comments on the last post.
Today has been hard but really good. I went down to the west country to pick up a piano and remove it near here. I've been trying to concentrate on my mp3 music of Haydn among other things....but I've been really excited all day. And not just cos I was tuning first thing in Nutbourne Chapel recording studios, for Stuart Townend, who is recording another of his worship CDs....

No I was listening into heaven...and this is what I heard....

You know the Las Vegas sound of one arm bandit machines clicking and down tumbles countless coins... well , this was the sort of thing I was hearing in the Spirit. Dan did something in the spirit in the last post, that in the Cinderella world of the Kingdom....unlocked something which is having ongoing repercussions. Something just shifted in heaven. And I'm excited.
Every so often people do it. Here are some examples:

The widow giving Elijah her last bit of oil.
Peter suddenly blurting out: You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God
A particular girl in Wales....could even have been Jessie Penn Lewis herself...which was one of the main keys in the lock to the 1906 revival
A widow in Jonghi Cho's church in South Korea who put her rice bowl up for auction,(Ithink she even stood in it) and a millionaire bought it. Which started to the biggest church in the world.
Then there was Job.Refusing to curse God. He was brought lower and lower and lower. Then after a direct encounter with God...plus him choosing to pray for his friends....then again gold machines of heaven suddenly whirred again...not just money...we're talking the spiritual gold of glory.
See, as I've written before....the devil was in the midst of absolute glory when he eternally decided to rise up and try to usurp the One true God of heaven. He then insinuated himself into our line. But the nature of Adam's offense was not of the same order. It did not originate with Adam. And although it was in a still perfect creation...it was not in the eternal realm of glory.

Each time a believer doggedly chooses right.......on and on and on.....refusing to capitulate....
eventually the heavenly tumblers fall....and some element of what was locked up under Adam,
springs open in the Holy Spirit. And He who the Son sets free....IS FREE INDEED>>>FOREVER.
WHEREVER>>>>>FOR ALWAYS IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.

Because if we can choose things in a fallen world...then we can sure choose them forever in glory.
And we become safe sons. What Norman calls "safe Spirit Operators".

Sunday, 11 January 2009

A Third Level Approach to Ministry III

Continuing the series that looks at how we do the whole thing of "Ministry" as the present Body of Christ.
To quote Gerald Coates from nigh on 40 years ago, "radical" means concerned with the root.
If the root of how we do ministry is a bit off, then like the Tower of Pisa, it doesn't get better the further up we go.

Me and the present setups
After all my postings you are probably aware of the slightly schizophrenic nature of this blog. On the one hand I want to encourage any good, God-raised up vehicle that gets people from a to b in Christ. If there are colleges that are being used to ground people in the Word of God. If there are networks or families of churches that are continually planting out here and abroad. If there are evangelists,especially signs and wonders evangelists bringing in a harvest of new people to Christ, and from there into existing churches.
My problem is this word "vehicle".

Since being with Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk I saw a kind of prototype Kingdom.
A prototype self-replicating Body of Christ. A Body that was birthed in the intercessory pain of Joel. The priests before the altar. Of Graham on a crypt floor for 3 months (read his book in my book list)surrounded by a broken neighbourhood...that neither wanted his church - nor could see anything else in life than the struggle to just survive. Nobody in my hearing has ever used the word "vehicle" about Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk Community.It wasn't a vehicle. It was Christ in their forms.

Here was faith. Evangelistic faith....even willing to come into Dr Challoner's Grammar School Amersham, fresh over from Houston Texas. But here was something else too. Here was a covenantal love between everybody. That was more than duty. There had been some dying and resurrecting...as in Jamie's last post . In Song of Solomon the younger sister is berated for being like a Tower....not having the well developed breasts of Faith and Love.

If we do not have well developed faith and well developed love...
our evangelism contains a lot of hoopla, a lot of brow-beating, a lot of pressure...

The thing is... the gospel is real, folks. We can do some dying and resurrecting. What resurrects is not us, but Christ...in all His unique fragrances and oils. People know on their insides that we have been with Him. The truth is actually far deeper. The truth is He has eaten us for lunch!!!
He never was really that interested in our lives before knowing Him. As clever as we may have thought we were. Whatever we were we really do count as loss. Cos when you've had tasters of Him radiating His Life out through you....such that every one in the room becomes a little irradiated themselves....well why would you ever go back?
So this is my problem
with large networks like Salt and Light, like New Frontiers,and all the many others out there
are they what I have described...the self-replicating Body of Christ
or are they just machines...just vehicles? It was never in Gerald Coates' heart to create a vehicle. But is this in fact what we are left with? New carts for the glory of God. Instead of the poles in my parable.
This is what prompted this post
Obviously I was struck over the weekend by the frankness of Dan's post on Life on Wings. But this is what hit me forcibly yesterday afternoon. And this is nothing to do with Dan.
There is a breed of person who remains in the academic world all his life. Like CS Lewis. Or let's take a Mr Smith. He does all his schooling. He goes to University. He does a Phd, then becomes a teacher in a school. Then out of 30 or more pupils, maybe one or two do likewise. So there already you have 2 generations of pupils that have perpetuated an academic life to perpetuate an academic life.
My point is more subtle than to say we perpetuate academic life, academic study of the scriptures...to forever be replicating just knowledge of the scriptures. Perhaps that is the preserve of the evangelical churches. No my point is a continuation of the last ministry posts.
What our networks perpetuate is a 2 level gospel of forgiveness and moving in the Spirit. The vision of faith (the God of Abraham and his faith walk) and the vision of the Baptism in the Spirit (the God of Isaac and his wells) but nearly nobody reproduces the Life Change or Name change which is hidden in the phrase "seek the Face of the God of Jacob" And it is this last revelation that changes a believer into an oozing Christ stick like Graham Pulkingham. It is this final element that meant the Israel history could start rolling. Via the 12 sons....and we know the rest.
And it is this final level that makes Ed Miller, and Mother Basilea Schlink stand out like Lighthouses in the sea of other ministries. Because, through doggedly seeking God themselves, they both found it,taught it and radiated it. And something similar was coming through Mother Theresa, who for 40 years did nothing but seek God....then when she was called to India she went as "Christ as her". She knew her identification, to use Jorge Pradas' phrase.

The model of Salt and Light under Barney Coombs, and Terry Virgo's New frontiers, and Morris Cerullo's God's Victorious Army , and Rheinhardt Bonnke's ministry schools, and YWAM's Discipleship Training Schools are wrong. They are 2 level affairs, with built-in add ons to try and make up for the deficiences. And to go back to the academic example. This insufficiency is perpetuated throughout the generations. At what point do people learn to live in the real world as "Christ as them". Then perpetuate that. At what point do people see right into the problem of Genesis 3:5, so they can correct it. They don't. So a shallow 2 level Christianity is forever perpetuated.

As I've described before about the Word being like a suspended orb(see comments section of this post)....in the end, when I listen to folk I'm not listening just to their words or their message, I am looking to see if the orb of God's Presence is suspended within what they are saying. This will make more sense if you read the passage again. Because English ministries have little or no knowledge of the 3 part Way of God
You get a limp and flaccid 2 part version
You get sound-ish docrine, but no Presence
You get add-on ministries like "Celebrate Recovery" in Derby church because of the insufficiencies in the original gospel....which leaves people still bound in their particular brand of sins, as I was.Worse than this by the way....at least 3 or 4 of the young people I was in Bible House with are dead. Many more are divorced. Already. I think it's important you read to the end of this post. I am not speaking out of lightweight experience.Perhaps now you can understand where I am coming from with 1st and 2nd level churches
The struggles that Dan describe this weekend are treated by the 1st and 2nd level churches as a brief abberation, as a slightly embarrassing interlude in the running of network churches. This is the tone of one of the Salt and Light church people when describing Todd's difficulties of 2005...let alone his more recent difficulties. It hasn't yet hit the Network churches that THIS IS THE GOSPEL. Everyone plays down these seeming abberrations...but this is Romans 7...this is the Psalms experience David is going on about. This IS how we decide in a safe universe to make a change on the inside of us. This is no human decision. This is a miracle. This isGod doing something at last...when all else failed.(Read Corrie Ten Boom) While we lean on the ultimate victory of the Cross 2000 years ago....this is us making it ours. It is debilitating...read Maurice Smith's 20th Century Pilgrim. It is embarrassing...especially to the pull yourselves up by your bootstraps brigade. But you see, those ones are not fully born again yet. Grace is not active in them yet. Their eternal destiny may be sealed....but God is not just about people's eternal destinies...He wants to get Christ up and running in me and you too...just like all those "top shelf" Christian bookshop people.
Like Watchman Nee. Like Corrie ten Boom. Like George Verwer. Like Madame Guyon. Like John Bunyan who describes all this in incredible detail in Pilgrim's Progress. And no, the order in his story is not wrong. It's you and your churches that are wrong.

Network churches build warehouses of Christians they don't know what to do with. They celebrate two out of the three feasts. Passover and Pentecost. And then they make Tabernacles into a reiteration of Passover because it has a Day of Atonement in it. see Joseph Prince.

No. No. No. Atonement is where it is in the sequence for a reason. If you are established in Passover and Pentecost...and you know His love and His forgiveness and His Presence....on the basis of that grounding He can begin walloping you like a teenager...to conform you into His sonship...to make you into an adult...a Co-worker with Him. Rather than looking at David in an embarrassed way...poor thing...he went through such stuff in the wilderness with Saul and that.... you've got to see that THIS IS THE WAY OF GOD. It's not something God is embarrassed about either.

To conclude I prophesy this with reference to our previous chats recently about Israel.
When the Church gets the revelation about Jacob...and the Name change
When the Church gets the revelation about The Day of Atonement
In that day we are going to provoke the nation of Israel to jealousy
And in that day we will see with our own eyes
A True Day of Atonement
The two houses being made as One (At one-ment) with their God and with each other.
Both flawed and floored by the grace of God in equal measure...that NO MAN MAY BOAST.

Selah

Facebook and the Arthur Blessitt post



Facebook
Something is happening.Facebook is nolonger the sole preserve of the teen, or the mother chasing after their offspring. In the last few weeks many individuals in churches have been linking up. Even men. Even Ivor the plumber. Christine has been on for a while. Today I signed up. see side link.....
While appreciating Sheila's previous comments about such things...I have to say , something is happening...something more than we originally could have thought...us fogey 50 year olds.
Not that we should be chained to a computer....but the odd salient line of info can't hurt..so others know roughly where you are at.And somehow you have a better corporate idea of what goes on outside meetings...or friends in general. So village life may be dead...but this is new, because it is international and instant. Perhaps better fitting the rising worldwide Body of Christ.
Arthur Blessitt
I did a post about Arthur here, and his new film out soon. A new autobiography is coming out too. Someone connected with the publishing has asked me to do a review after seeing this post. His email had got lost in google. (I think we have a referral problem to do with being on Outlook 2000). You never know who is reading these blogs.

Saturday, 10 January 2009

~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Sponsor an Executive

~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Sponsor an Executive

John Stevens on Israel and this blog

Hi Chris,

Very good Christmas break. Much fun and a couple of crises - a normal dysfunctional festival!

Have you ever walked down a typical suburban road and seen how every so often a household can get the front garden and house 'just right', others try, it's all there but just doesn't hum, and others have weeds and rusty bikes where others have begonias and lawns. This is a meandering attempt to comploimat you on your website! It's just pleasnt on the eye and easy to roam around.

I'm tempted to join in the Israel stuff. I'm three days away from a sermon on Israel - or more specifically Jesus the King of Isarel. Probably with Mt21 as the centre of gravity. I'd pretty well commited myself on this track days before Gaza kicked off and Anne Franks diaries was broadcast.

It sees that the bible is up to its old tricks on Israel. Enigmatic, a tantalising brew of allegory and multi-level revelation let alone multi-fulfilment prophetic utterances. And that's just Jesus and his proclamations about the impending doom facing Israel and fulfilled in AD70 which seem also to have built-in eschtological truths!

It's the usual 'word of God, living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword able to divide between soul and spirit...' It divides for example between Israel and Israel. Not all Israel is of Israel. Sons of promise v physical descendents. But this has always been the case since Abraham's day. Real judgement.

I've been trying to look at the Jewish people through the eyes of the King of Israel. The cry of Jesus is emotion 'how I have longed to gather you together like a hen with chcks but you would not...'. The whole point of the cross and resurrection is new hope. A demonstration of a love that will not let go. The King will not abandon His people. He will shepherd them even through the centuries of diaspora. And even if the present state of Israel isn't the political entity that welcomes its returning King, He will shepherd them through this. But He is faithful and still longs to gather His people. That some of the physical descendants won't put their faith in Him 'will not have this man to be king over us' in the end is their look out. A long time ago Jesus transferred the kingdom from 'you (ponting to the Pharisees who'd just turned up for another pasting from the King) to a new nation (pointing to the tax collecting and sinning Jewish believers)'.

In being faithful the King of Israel has become the light to the Gentiles - and here we are! But I do see a future for an Israel that the world has never seen. It'll be something like David's crew from the cave at Adullum. The ones in trouble, in debt, the fearful, and the rich, the well to do, the strong, who are willing to give and give again, who recognised that David was the anointed King and would bring about a new kindom rule. Just how Jesus will accomplish this is a mystery. But when Jesus said 'it is accomplished' this is definitely one of those multi-level statements. So many riches were bundled into those few words.

Right now, in Israel, the King is gathering new disciples. His church is small and (full of Level this and Level that!!) and I don't know whether they all resalise the drama that's unfolding or the depth of hope at stake. But one day something dramatic is going to be heard. The father will hear them saying 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord' then He will send Jesus, the King of Israel, the Son of David. What happens then, trumpets, resurrection meets mortality, creation is liberated, sons of God revealed in glory - who knows. Maybe we've exceeded the limitations of language at this point? Milleniums and eternity. I've read all the of theories. And finally the apostles question 'is it at this time that you will restore the kingdom to Israel?' will be answered.

Just as you've rumbled (discerned) the difference between Level 2 and 3 and are busy exploring, seeking others, provoking a new thinking etc. Typical. Jesus gathering a new kingdom out of public and largely church gaze. Your website could have the hallmarks of a 21st century cave of Adullam. Wow what it must have been like. Close to David. Weak yet strong. Off stage but centre stage.

Ah well into 2009 we plunge!

John

ps having complimented your website I couldn't work the link to your music. Is there a way of navigating direct from your website?
(Chris asks: Have any others had the same trouble as John?
As for Adullams's cave I think a lot of our blogs viewed as a unit, could be viewed in this way.)

Thursday, 8 January 2009

2009 Prophecy through Mark Stibbe

This is drawn from the Father's House website resource - see blog links section
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sensed the Father saying the following. 2009 is a year of birthing new ventures, ministries, and pioneering 'out of the box' churches, in a time of encroaching and increasing darkness. These births will be the subject of attack, just as the birth of Jesus was. But the attacks will not succeed because the new wineskins that are being formed are being formed covertly. Life is going to break out in a time of judgement.
What is born this year, though small in size, will have massive significance in terms of destiny. Each delivery will result in a ministry of great deliverance. In fact what is being born in 2009 has a nation changing potential in some cases, and reformation potential in others. Isaiah 60 verses 1 to 3 are crucial, verse 3 especially. Even great leaders and thinkers are going to be drawn to the pin pricks of light coming from these new things. All this will come out of hiddenness. Humility and holiness are therefore very very important. As at the birth of Jesus there is going to be a radical increase in the supernatural, including signs in the sky, increased prophetic revelation and visitations of angels. Expect more miracles, more in number and more in quality. This is definitely a time for pressing in for the even greater things of John 14, though it will be on the streets that this will be most evident. The power of God is moving outside the house.
These new births are taking place in a time of increasing difficulty for those who put their trust in material things. There will be great problems suffered by many as the lights start to go out. There will be storms of unusual intensity, power cuts, and floods. More institutions are going to implode. Basic commodities will become more and more scarce. Unemployment will rise dramatically.
The new born ministries will however be in place to help those in need, as the revived churches in the New York prayer revival were in 1857. In 1857-9 the US revival involved the business world and happened in the context of a great economic meltdown. I detect a similar dynamic today.
There will be revivals breaking out in unusual places - Bethlehems, as it were - but it will not be revival as we have known it. It will be out of the box and incarnational.... Born in stables more than synagogues. There will be unusual financial miracles as gold is brought to these infant ministries - as at the nativity. If the ministry is born of the Sprit, there will be no recession for the people of God. Wealth will be redistributed. Josephs are going to be raised up to store for the poor. God is calling what I can only describe as holy Robin Hoods who will take what the rich have and give it to the poor.
This is truly a time to be born. Ministries conceived in 08 are about to be delivered. Timing is vital. We can't force the moment. When the contractions start, that's the time to PUSH, Pray Until Something Happens!

Every Day is NOT the same. Saints we have to wake up

Below is my answer to what Sheila writes in her post. This comes out of listening to Mark Stibbe's Noah messages.



Sheila wrote: in No trumpets, no scrolls

Some days are silently life changing. I'm having another one of those silent, yet life-altering, fork-in-the-road sort of days. Never, does a scroll drop from heaven, written in flourishing, heavenly script, "Heads up! Things will never be the same again! This is a Very Important Moment!" Never do trumpets play...not even in your head.
You simply have to become wise enough to "number your days, so that you can apply your heart to wisdom", as the Psalm says. You must discern the moment.
Today, ever so quietly, our balding and cheerful postman delivered a large box.
Hannah's first choice of wedding gown. This one will be the first one she will ever try on. We hope it is "the one"; we'll see. It lies there, on her bed, waiting to change her whole life...and mine.
Today, ever so quietly, I have taken down the Christmas decorations. For the very first time ever, Hannah's go into a separate box, a simple box, nothing fancy, lovingly tied up by yours truly with plaid Christmas ribbon. Those trinkets will hang on her tree, next Christmas, in her first apartment, with her new husband. This was accomplished silently, no words from me, alone in my livingroom, with soft jazz music playing in the background, while I drank a Slimfast milkshake - I'm not dieting, but rather just needed quick nourishment that I didn't have to prepare first. Quiet activity. Life changing, nonetheless.
Today, ever so quietly, I walked into my bedroom, carrying a load of laundry, and caught my son making copies of his transcripts, SAT scores, and immunization records. I had no idea. With no prodding, no hinting, no cajoling, he is enrolling in an area college. He is paying for it himself, aside from any scholarships or grants he can, himself, obtain. He is set on working and paying his own way. He had been on the telephone with Roane State this morning, unbeknownst to his father or me, and as of this moment (just got a cell phone call from him) has paid his application fees, and filled out enrollment papers. He is seizing the day, having prayed desperately for the mind of God concerning his future. Quietly, with no input from his parents, no manipulation from mom; with no gabbing or fanfare or an ounce of insecurity on his part....confidently and almost noiselessly, he took yet another step towards becoming a man. I wasn't expecting it. Life changing stuff, it is.
There was a time, in my young motherhood, when I would have grabbed up a telephone and spoiled the silence. I would have vented these emotions. I would have been far too overwhelmed, even wonderfully and positively overwhelmed, with so many milestones in a day. Now, in the twilight of my mothering years, I have learned to value the quiet, transforming moment, and to meet that moment, and honor it with a quiet heart of my own.
And tomorrow is another day. No telling what it will hold.
"In quietness and confidence shall be my strength...."


Christine has been through this with 3 daughters and I'm tagging on behind with Ben.When I was listening to Mark Stibbe on Noah something of the same finality really hit me when he was describing the shutting of the Ark doors....not related to you ofcourse. But truly every day is not the same. And there are days which change everything. When everything changes. Another thing really hit me once again ...for years we have toddled along in charismatic churches at one level. We assume that things will continue much the same. Just as Southern Baptists thought that things would continue just the same. In 1966, they and other evangelicals at Lausanne Conference on Evangelism projected forward that because of higher criticism and many other factors...there would be hardly any church left by 1990.And then the Southern Baptists went back to their churches and continued much the same as they always did.But things did change. Suddenly. A whole generation were suddenly...and it was sudden...born again in the level of baptism in the Spirit. Things were never like the 60s again.And in the same way another step change is to occur. In a way, Florida was I believe the advert.The cinema trailer. (Some scream back sarcastically...what an advert!!!! But I just answer...my friends were there. They know of what they speak).