Chris Welch uses Designer Pro 365 to illustrate all 3rd level concepts

Monday, 29 November 2010

Survival of the Godliest: Does strong religious belief provide an evolutionary advantage?

by vj torley......first appeared here
Over at MercatorNet, Phillip Longman, a former senior writer and deputy assistant managing editor at U.S. News & World Report, has written a thought-provoking post on what might be described as a battle between genes and memes – the
genes being those of very religious people (who are much more likely to procreate), and the memes being atheism, agnosticism and other varieties of secular belief, as well as the version of evolution put forward by Darwin, who is supposed to have “made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist” (Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, 1986, p. 6). And the genes are winning. Here are some key findings highlighted by Longman:

•“[I]n countries rich and poor, under all forms of government, birth rates are declining across the globe. But they are declining least among those adhering to strict religious codes and literal belief in the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran.”
•“Indeed, the pattern of human fertility now fits this pattern: the least likely to procreate are those who profess no belief in God; those who describe themselves as agnostic or simply spiritual are only somewhat slightly less likely to be childless. Moving up the spectrum, family size increases among practicing Unitarians, Reform Jews, mainline Protestants and ‘cafeteria’ Catholics, but the birthrates found in these populations are still far below replacement levels. Only as we approach the realm of religious belief and practice marked by an intensity we might call, for lack of a better word, ‘fundamentalism,’ do we find pockets of high fertility and consequent rapid population growth.”
•“When confronted with the fact that they are being outbred, secularists often respond that many if not most children born into highly religious families will grow up to reject the faith of their fathers,” but “[a]mong fundamentalist families, it turns out, the apple does not fall far from the tree. And the more demanding the faith, the more this rule applies. Only five percent of children born to the most conservative Amish, for example, move on to other faiths or lifestyles.”

In presenting these findings, Longman draws upon the work of American academic Eric Kaufmann, currently a reader in politics at Birkbeck College, University of London, and formerly a fellow at the Belfer Center, Harvard University, whose new book, Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth?: Demography and Politics in the Twenty-First Century, has been released in the United Kingdom, and is due to come out in the United States next spring.

Here’s a quote from the Product Description:

“Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have convinced many western intellectuals that secularism is the way forward, but most people don’t read their books before deciding whether to be religious. Instead, they inherit their faith from their parents, who often inoculate them against the elegant arguments of secularists. And what no one has noticed is that far from declining, the religious are expanding their share of the population; in fact, the more religious people are, the more children they have. The cumulative effect of immigration from religious countries and religious fertility will be to reverse the secularization process in the West. Not only will the religious eventually triumph over the non-religious, but it is those who are the most extreme in their beliefs who have the largest families.”

What I found most fascinating about Longman’s analysis is that he is able to explain why he thinks religion will eventually triumph over secularism in purely Darwinian terms. Having a baby is, for most couples in the modern world, a choice, which reflects their personal values. “And so,” writes Longman, “by Darwinian process, those who adhere to traditions that preserve and celebrate the ancient injunction to ‘go forth and multiply’ wind up putting more of their genes and ideas into the future than those who don’t.”

I imagine that well-read atheists are already aware of these social trends, and I’m sure they are quite worried about them. On the one hand, atheists naturally want the percentage of people espousing their secular world-view to increase; on the other hand, most of them believe that the world already has too many people for the Earth to support – which is a natural consequence of an atheistic world-view, as I pointed out in a recent post. Now put yourselves in the atheists’ shoes: how do you think they would attempt to fight these trends? The only way they can achieve the dual objectives of keeping the world’s population down and boosting the percentage of atheists worldwide is to target the fertility of highly religious people. I can think of a few fairly obvious ways in which they might attempt to do that, and because these measures are, in my opinion, politically feasible, I don’t share Longman’s certainty that religion will inevitably triumph over secularism. Some of these measures are either currently being implemented or are already well in place in many countries; other measures are a decade or two down the track. Well, here’s my list. Recognize any of these in your country of residence?

•Conduct censuses as zealously as possible, in order to keep tabs on locations in one’s country where religious ideas are being actively propagated. Prosecute “census resisters” to the full extent of the law, as many of these people are religiously motivated. In cases where evidence emerges that the resisters are vocally religious, remove the children from the custody of their parents. In subsequent public statements made to the press, cite fears that the children may be subjected to psychological abuse if left in the care of their parents, who will already be stigmatized as “outlaws” in the public eye, after being “named and shamed” on television.
•Outlaw home schooling. Home-schooled children are virtually impervious to government indoctrination. As many of them come from a religious background at home, they also tend to have larger families when they get married. In order to drum up public and political support for a total ban on home schooling, orchestrate a campaign in the press and on television, featuring politicians, concerned parents and recognized “experts” on child welfare who argue strongly that home schooling stunts children’s social development and therefore constitutes a form of child abuse. Support this argument with an appeal to examples of “enlightened” countries in Europe which have already banned home-schooling. Finally, belittle or discredit any studies (see here, here and here) purporting to demonstrate that in fact, home-schooled children are in fact better adjusted socially than children who attend school, and that their parents tend to be more affluent and better-educated (see here) than the general population.
•Extend the number of hours that children are required to spend at school, in order to maximize their exposure to values other than those they receive in the home, and minimize the amount of time parents have to inculcate religious beliefs into their children. For example: introduce free after-school care, or broaden the school curriculum to include after-school activities, or strongly encourage students to join after-school clubs.
•Introduce compulsory “values” classes into public schools, and inculcate children with the notion that any kind of judgmentalism regarding other people’s chosen lifestyles is totally unacceptable. At a later stage, school principals would be instructed to refuse to allow students to graduate, unless they publicly pledge not to promote bigotry of any kind, and further pledge their belief that all lifestyles in which the parties involved freely consent, are of equal moral value. This pledge could be implemented as a graduation pledge which each student would be required to sign and recite aloud. Highly religious students who refused to take the pledge would thereby be rendered unable to obtain a steady job, reducing their chances of finding a spouse and having children.
•Introduce compulsory classes on “religious tolerance” into public schools, in which religions are compared and contrasted in a manner which allows teachers to highlight the atrocities practiced by religions in the past, leaving students with the unmistakable impression that religions represent a fossilized way of thinking, and that science is the way of the future.
•Deny government funding to religious schools that teach any kind of “bigotry.” Leave the term “bigotry” as vague as possible in legal judgments, in the beginning. As time progresses, issue a series of legal decisions, enlarging the list of ideas that can be classified as bigotry, so that in effect, religious schools receiving government funding end up teaching a form of “secular lite,” which is always about 15 years behind current social trends, and therefore relatively innocuous from a secular perspective, while at the same time retaining limited appeal for parents who want their children brought up with “old-fashioned” values.
•Enact laws guaranteeing free access to birth control (including abortion) at school as a fundamental human right for all students over the age of 12, who attend public schools. Gradually extend the scope of these laws to religious schools receiving any form of government funding. (I’d predict that most of these schools will probably comply, so long as the medical professional who is legally responsible for providing abortifacient pills – such as RU-486 – to students on request is someone who is not employed by the school.) Finally, extend the laws to cover independent schools as well. (Offer them an “out”: if parents object to abortifacient pills being doled out on school grounds, the school will be required to put up notices telling students that they are legally entitled to these services, and also to allow a government-appointed medical counselor to work at the school, who can arrange for students to get free transport to a nearby school providing these services, if they request them.)
Encourage the passage of laws which make the possession of a college degree essential for getting almost any kind of job. College is an ideal time to weaken religious belief, as many young people give up their religion permanently during their college years. College also people to be exposed to a milieu where Darwinism is widely accepted, and where publicly expressed doubts can be “ironed out.”
•Enact legislative measures disallowing childless couples from adopting a child if they intend to bring that child up in a faith which encourages any kind of “bigotry” or “intolerance” (see here for a recent example). Leave these terms undefined in the original legislation, but in subsequent legal cases, render “clarifying” decisions, to the effect that any kind of religious exclusivism or moral judgmentalism which is expressed in a couple’s home (e.g. recitation of a religious creed during family prayers, or pro-life wall posters, or even condemnation of abortion at the family dinner table) can be regarded as legitimate grounds for denying that couple the right to adopt a child.
•At a later stage, enact laws extending the same “protection” to all children, regardless of whether they are adopted or not. (After all, if adoptive children have the right to be brought up in a bigotry-free household, don’t all children?)
•At a still later stage, enact laws allowing social workers to take children away by force from their parents (natural or adopted), if there is sufficient evidence that they are being raised in a household that encourages any form of “bigotry.” By this stage, parents will be too frightened to inculcate their children with religious or moral beliefs that run counter to secular practice – e.g. the highly judgmental moral belief that killing a fetus is tantamount to homicide, or the religious belief that God commanded people to be fruitful and multiply.
•Citing concerns about children’s welfare following a string of highly publicized cases of child neglect reported in the press, introduce laws requiring all expecting mothers to submit to a home inspection by a suitably qualified social worker, with a follow-up interview, in order to ascertain that they can offer their child a home that meets government health and safety requirements. The real intent of these laws would be to make it as difficult as possible for parents to have four or more children. For example, if the laws stipulated that every child has the right to his/her own bedroom and PC, parents who lacked the financial resources to buy or rent a 5-bedroom house would feel pressured into terminating their fourth pregnancy, especially if threatened with legal action if they did not comply with government requirements.
•Reduce the flow of immigration from highly religious countries to a trickle. If immigration becomes economically necessary at some future stage, when the proportion of elderly people becomes too high for a shrinking population of workers to support, give preference to immigrants from countries which score low on a “religiosity scale,” as their children will be easier to indoctrinate with secular humanist ideas, including Darwinism.
•Offer an incentive to desperate families in Third World countries wishing to migrate to Western countries: give preference to families in which the parents are willing to allow their children to spend large amounts of time in extra-curricular activities at public schools (e.g. summer camps). This will reduce their exposure to home influences, such as religion, and increase their exposure to secular humanist ideas. Alternatively, give preference to families where the parents are willing to let their children have a PC (provided gratis by the State) in their bedrooms, with Internet access.
•Strive to eliminate pro-life laws in Third World countries by showering them with economic aid, and then threatening to cut off said aid if the government does not enact more “liberal” laws. Ditto for other laws that go against the secular social agenda. Another good tactic: wait for an unforeseen economic disaster to hit each of these countries (as such a disaster will inevitably hit any country, if one is patient enough), and then offer a “rescue package” with strings attached: namely, the passage of socially “progressive” laws which make abortion legally available.

•If the geopolitical demise of the secular West as the dominant political power bloc becomes imminent (as it will in the next thirty years), encourage the transfer of economic, military, scientific and technological assistance to the upcoming world power whose values most closely approximate the secular agenda, thereby enabling the “meme” of secular humanism to retain global hegemony.

I would like to emphasize that I’m not talking about any crazy conspiracy theories here. I believe that all of the measures I’ve outlined above have a good chance of becoming “mainstream” and widely accepted in Western countries within the next 20 or 30 years, if they are not already. The “revolution” will happen right under our nose. However, I imagine I’ve probably overlooked a few more techniques that could be used to propagate secular humanism and its “enabler,” Darwinism, and at the same time inhibit the fertility of religious people. Perhaps readers would care to add some of their “proposed measures” to my list?

This entry was posted Sunday, November 28th, 2010 at 5:14 pm and is filed under Intelligent Design. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
13 Responses
1

tragic mishap

11/28/2010

10:52 pm
I like Richard Dawkins’ idea myself. He suggests that teaching children religion should be legally considered as child abuse.

http://richarddawkins.net/arti.....hild-abuse

2

tragic mishap

11/28/2010

10:53 pm
In the article Dawkins claims to not actually be advocating a legal approach. Of course not, it’s just a hypothetical.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/freethinking/

3

GilDodgen

11/28/2010

11:17 pm
Introduce compulsory classes on “religious tolerance” into public schools, in which religions are compared and contrasted in a manner which allows teachers to highlight the atrocities practiced by religions in the past

How about compulsory classes concerning explicitly atheistic Marxism which was responsible for the deaths of more than 100,000,000 people under Stalin, Lenin, and Mao?

Introduce compulsory “values” classes into public schools, and inculcate children with the notion that any kind of judgmentalism regarding other people’s chosen lifestyles is totally unacceptable.

Of course, there is one exception: Judgmentalism regarding conservative Christian values is perfectly acceptable and encouraged. In the newspeak of the secular left, intolerance becomes tolerance, and inclusivity means excluding those with whom they do not agree.

This is poison. As many UD readers know, I am a former secular-humanist, militant atheist. I mention this to emphasize that for 43 years I lived under the curse of this hideously destructive lie. I don’t want anyone else to go through what I went through.

If the atheistic secular humanists have their way, it will mean the collapse of Western Judeo-Christian civilization, and the suffering and misery that will ensue will be indescribable.

4

nullasalus

11/29/2010

12:15 am
This seems relevant.

In the above link, Susan Blackmore concedes that religion is not a “virus of the mind” either in a moral sense or an evolutionary sense. Nevermind that this is all going according to a model I think is flawed and silly (the ‘meme’ thing), but it’s pretty noteworthy considering she was one of the main boosters of the idea.

Also noteworthy is her failing to realize that, given the data, atheism should be considered a ‘virus of the mind’ under her own view.

5

Kyrilluk

11/29/2010

3:33 am
Ban religious from teaching.

And if it still doesn’t work, organise a genocide in order to restore peace and security (after all, the religious people are responsible for all the wars). Pol Pot will probably become a great leader in the future, a great visionary who wasn’t understood in his time.

6

allanius

11/29/2010

8:04 am
Well, well, it isn’t really the command to go forth and multiply that accounts for the fertility of the religious. It’s hope.

Atheists inhabit a hopeless world. Since they believe in nothing, they are afraid of everything. God does not exist. No one is in control. “The center cannot hold.”

It is not love of the environment that stops them from procreating. Nor in most cases is it simple materialism or self-centeredness. It is the fear of bringing children into a world that seems doomed for destruction.

Contraception, hailed in its day as a means of liberation, has unintended consequences. Given the power to choose, atheists choose not to procreate. The glorification of sex leads to a new kind of slavery and to death.

7

vjtorley

11/29/2010

9:11 am
tragic mishap

Thanks for the links. Richard Dawkins is right to highlight the psychological scarring caused by a religious upbringing in which the child is led to believe that he/she (or a childhood friend) is likely to end up in Hell. But the cure for bad religion isn’t no religion; it’s true religion.

I find it difficult to imagine a worse kind of child abuse than telling a child that he/she is a machine, with no free will.

Much as I detest atheism, however, I believe it is a parent’s natural right to instruct their child about right, wrong and the meaning of life, as they see it, even if their vision is fundamentally wrong. Children love and trust their parents more than anyone else in the world, so they are the ones who should be entrusted with the task of answering the child’s ultimate questions about life.

Dawkins’ petition is not likely to be codified into law in the next 20 years, but it may become the law of the land within the next 50 years, if present trends continue.

I think everyone realizes that for young children, religion is a matter of habit before it becomes a consciously articulated belief. Children copy what their parents do in a house of worship, and they learn the reason for it later. Banning the inculcation of habit-forming religious behavior would cause religion to wither on the vine. That’s why Dawkins is so keen on such a van.

8

vjtorley

11/29/2010

9:16 am
Gil Dodgen

Thank you for your kind remarks on my post. You hit the nail on the head with your comment on anti-judgmentalism: it’s a self-refuting position.

Few indeed are the atheists who acknowledge the essential intolerance of their world-view. Most of them try to wiggle out of Marxist atrocities.

9

vjtorley

11/29/2010

9:23 am
nullasalus

Thanks very much for the link to the Susan Blackmore interview. She’s certainly an intellectually honest woman, and I admire her for that, even if I disagree with her stance on religion and the after-life.

The “virus” analogy for religion was never a good one, but it’s now apparent that the analogy is totally inept.

10

vjtorley

11/29/2010

9:31 am
allanius

Reading your remark, “Atheists live in a hopeless world,” I was reminded by what one recently converted ex-atheist, Jennifer Fulwiler, wrote about hope in her blog post, Finding Rest. The post is a real eye-opener, as it vividly describes the mental universe inhabited by those with no religious belief.

11

nullasalus

11/29/2010

10:54 am
vjtorley,

She’s certainly an intellectually honest woman, and I admire her for that, even if I disagree with her stance on religion and the after-life.

On this, I have to disagree at least in part. Notice that she abandoned her ‘religion is a virus of the mind’ claim due to comparative data – religious people performed better according to the data in an evolutionary sense, and in a social sense. So she still thinks her model is true in the sense that this or that type of belief can be a ‘virus of the mind’.

The problem is, again… this was comparative data. And she was comparing the religious to the irreligious. In this case, it would mean that not only is religion not a mind-virus – but secularism, atheism, and general irreligiosity *is*, according to her own model.

So she only goes half-way. It’s as if it never occurred to her that it’s even possible for atheism to be a virus.

12

tragic mishap

11/29/2010

11:27 am
Banning the inculcation of habit-forming religious behavior would cause religion to wither on the vine. That’s why Dawkins is so keen on such a van.

Of course. Dawkins doesn’t care about child abuse. He believes it’s unfair that religious people outnumber atheists when his point of view is obviously the rational one that everyone would choose if they weren’t conditioned against it. He wants to level the playing field so his side can win. The funny thing is, even if he gets his wish, I sincerely doubt the world would end up rejecting religion.

I find it difficult to imagine a worse kind of child abuse than telling a child that he/she is a machine, with no free will.

How do you mean this? I’m in a discussion right now with an atheist who is telling me that Christianity doesn’t allow for free will. I assume you mean the opposite.

13

bornagain77

11/29/2010

12:02 pm
GilDodgen this may interest you,

Personal Testimony of ‘recovering’ atheists at William Lane Craig’s defenders class:
http://www.hieropraxis.com/201.....r-atheist/

Sunday, 28 November 2010

Flashpoints of Revival by Geoff Waugh

Flashpoints of Revival (2nd enlarged edition 2009)

The 2nd edition updated and enlarged, contains recent accounts of revivals in the 21st Century, especially community and ecological transformation in the South Pacific, as well as the original survey of major revivals in the last 300 years.
This post lists the entire contents page, then gives some of the content in abridged form from the mid twentieth Century section.

  • From the point of view of this blog's title analyze some of the common traits as you read:
  • Heartfelt insistant believing prayer
  • Confession of  the "idol of independent self actions and attitudes"
  • High prominance of youth. Why? A very high premium is placed by God on those who of their own will seek Him early in life, purely for reasons of firstlove, even before most have gotten into worst scrapes later on. His grace covers all eventualities, and those like Mary Magdalen moved in a "firstlove" that came from being forgiven much.
  • Even appointed servants like Duncan Campbell were not in charge. Meetings continued after he had "closed" them with a benediction.
  • Revivals run in the Melchizedek order. There can be no string pulling.
  • It's about the MANIFEST PRESENCE of GOD  and an Open Heaven when the Enemy's 2nd heaven interference seems completely suspended, and there seems to be just an open window right through to God's 3rd heaven. God's Presence is everywhere at all times, but in revival it is perceived by all....whether seeking it or not.
  • The other aspect of the Melchizedek order is that Jesus Himself calls the necessary servants in.We see in Argentina that Jesus Himself speaks independently to the evangelist Tommy Hicks alerting him that the time is NOW. Humanly this would have seemed ridiculous. It was a South American almost universally Catholic nation up until God spoke to Tommy.
  • Conversely, the opposite of string pulling, is the divine transfer of gifting running in a line through history- for example the link between Branham and  TL Osborn.How do we perceive the difference? Only the Holy Spirit. Sometimes we can pray all we like, but God is saying go here, meet such and such, read such and such.Other times He is saying, quit running around  saying the Kingdom is Lo here, lo there. It is near you, even in your mouth...."Bind the festal sacrifice to the altar!" Let's get down to brass tacks with you and your surroundings, and how you are "seeing" things on your inside.
  •  How do we know? By the Spirit. By His Life within. By confirmation from others who are "sons of God". Who are the sons of God? Romans viii. 14.—"As many are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Contents

1. Eighteenth Century
1727 - Herrnhut, Germany (Nicholas Zinzendorf)
1735 - New England, America (Jonathan Edwards)
1739 - London, England (Geroge Whitefield, John Wesley)
1745 - Crossweeksung, America (David Brainerd)
1781 - Cornwall, England

2. Nineteenth Century
1800 - America (James McGready)
1801 - Cane Ridge, America (Barton Stone)
1821 - Adams, America (Charles Finney)
1858 - New York, America (Jeremiah Lanphier)
1859 - Ulster, Ireland (James McQuilkin)
1859 - Natal, South Africa (Zulus)
1871 - New York, America (D L Moody)

3. Early Twentieth Century
1904 - Loughor, Wales (Evan Roberts)
1905 - Mukti, India (Pandita Ramabai)
1906 - Los Angeles, America (William Seymour)
1907 - Pyongyang, Korea
1909 - Valparaiso, Chile (Willis Hoover)
1921 - Lowestroft, England (Douglas Brown)
1936 - Gahini, Rwanda (East African Revival)

4. Mid-twentieth Century
1947 - North America (Healing Evangelism)
1948 - Saskatchewan, Canada (Sharon Bible School)
1949 - Hebrides Islands, Scotland (Duncan Campbell)
1951 - City Bell, Argentina (R E Miller)
1960 - North India (David Mangratee)
1962 - Vanuatu (Paul Grant)
1965 - Soe, Timor (Nahor Leo, Mel Tari)
1970 - Wilmore, Kentucky (Asbury College)
1970 - Solomon Islands (Muri Thompson)
1971 - Saskatoon, Canada (Bill McCleod)
1973 - Phnom Penh, Cambodia (Todd Burke)

5. Late Twentieth Century
1975 - Gaberone, Botswana (Reinhardt Bonnke)
1979 - Elcho Island, Australia (Djiniyini Gondarra)
1979 - South Africa (Rodney Howard-Browne)
1979 - Anaheim, America (John Wimber)
1988 - Papua New Guinea (Johan van Bruggen)
1988 - Madruga, Cuba
1989 - Henan and Anhul, China

6. Final Decade, Twentieth Century
1992 - Argentina (Claudio Freidzon)
1993 - Brisbane, Australia (Neil Miers)
1994 - Toronto, Canada (John Arnott, Randy Clark)
1994 - Brompton, London (Eleanor Mumford)
1994 - Sunderland, England (Ken Gott)
1995 - Melbourne, Florida (Randy Clark)
1995 - Modesto, California (Glen Berteau)
1995 - Brownwood, Texas (College Revivals)
1995 - Pensacola, Florida (Steve Hill)
1995 - Mexico (David Hogan)
1996 - Houston, Texas (Richard Heard)

Addendum: Twentieth First Century
2000 - Kathmandu, Nepal (Raju Sandas)
2002 - Port Vila, Vanuatu (Romulo Nayacalevu)
2002 - Sabeto, Fiji (Ratu Mataioga)
2003 - Naku, Fiji (Vuniami Nakauyaca)
2003 - Western Solomon Islands (Elison Peter)
Revival Transformation Reports

Selected and Adapted from Flashpoints of Revival1947




4. Mid-twentieth Century



April-July - North America (Healing Evangelism Revival)



Following World War II, especially in 1947-48 the Lord began imparting powerful ministries to people who later had worldwide impact. These included William Branham, Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, and T. L. and Daisy Osborn.

William Branham reported that on Tuesday 7 May 1946 an angel spoke to him saying, "Fear not, I am sent from the presence of Almighty God to tell you that your peculiar life and your misunderstood ways have been to indicate that God has sent you to take a gift of divine healing to the people of the world. If you will be sincere, and can get the people to believe you, nothing shall stand before your prayer, not even cancer" (Riss 1988:106). He became renowned for accurate words of knowledge and amazing healings.

On Sunday 27 April 1947 when Kathryn Kuhlman began a teaching series on the Holy Spirit in Franklin, Pennsylvania a woman in the audience was healed of a tumour, and testified about it the following night. That marked the beginning of Kathryn Kuhlman's thirty years of incredible healing evangelism. Based at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania from 1948 she held regular services in Carnegie Hall and the First Presbyterian Church, developed a daily radio ministry, and produced over 500 telecasts for the CBS network. For ten years she regularly filled the 7,000 seating Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles at her monthly miracle services there.

On Wednesday 14 May 1947, following seven months of intensive prayer including fasting, Oral Roberts received direction from God about beginning his now famous healing evangelistic ministry. He had himself been healed through prayer at 17 after being bed ridden with tuberculous for five months. From 1948 he used a tent seating 2,000 people and from 1953 he had a tent seating 12,500. By 1956 his monthly magazine Abundant Life had a circulation of over a million. In 1965 he opened a college which later became Oral Roberts University now with 4,500 students. By the eighties 15 million copies of his books had been sold, and thousands of people continue the healing and evangelistic ministry he began.

On Tuesday 24 June 1947 Henrietta Mears, Christian Education Director at First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, spoke at a teachers and leaders conference at Forest Home in the nearby mountains. A group of young leaders including the newly converted Bill Bright (later founder of Campus Crusade for Christ) met late that night for prayer with Henrietta Mears, confessing sin with much weeping and crying out to God. "Then, the fire fell. However it can be explained, God answered their prayer with a vision. They saw before them the college campuses of the world teeming with unsaved students, who held in their hands the power to change the world. The college campuses - they were the key to world leadership, to world revival" (Riss 1988:126). Annual College Briefing Conferences were then held at Forest Home. Billy Graham and Edwin Orr spoke at the 1949 conference there, where Billy Graham also experienced a deep infilling of the Holy Spirit as the presence of god engulfed him while he prayed alone on a mountain. His Los Angeles crusade later that year attracted wide press coverage and launched him into an international ministry.

In July 1947 Tommy and Daisy Osborn, Pentecostal pastors in Oregon, were deeply moved at a camp meeting by a message on seeing Jesus. They had returned to America after an unsuccessful time as missionaries in India in 1945-6 where sickness plagued them. Following that camp[ meeting T. L. Osborn had a powerful vision of Jesus.

In September 1947 the Osborns attended a meeting where William Branham healed he sick and cast out demons, including deliverance of a deaf-mute girl who then heard and spoke perfectly. T. L. Osborn realised that was the Bible way. Since then the Osborns have ministered to millions, preached to crowds of 20,000 to 250,000 in crusades in 76 countries, and led hundreds of thousands of people to Jesus Christ. Vast numbers have been healed, including the deaf, blind, and crippled. Body organs have been recreated and restored, cancers died and vanished, lepers were healed and the dead raised. Most of their powerful evangelism and healing ministry has been with huge crowds in developing nations. They regularly established 400 churches a year in these nations.



1948

Thursday 12 February - Saskatchewan, Canada (Sharon Schools)

A revival movement which came to be called the Latter Rain revival (from Joel 2:28) began suddenly in the Sharon Orphanage and Schools including the Bible School in North Battleford, Saskatchewan, Canada. Previously, teachers from the Bible School had been deeply impressed by the words of knowledge and healings at meetings conducted by William Branham in 1947 in Vancouver. They and the students began praying and fasting and studying the Scriptures with new intensity from November that year.

The staff and most of the 70 students had gathered in the largest classroom for devotions on Thursday 12 February 1948 when the Holy Spirit fell on their gathering. Ern Hawtin, a teacher there described it in their magazine the Sharon Star:

"Some students were under the power of God on the floor, others were kneeling in adoration and worship before the Lord. The anointing deepened until the awe was upon everyone. The Lord spoke to one of the brethren, 'Go and lay hands upon a certain student and pray for him.' While he was in doubt and contemplation one of the sisters who had been under the power of God went to the brother saying the same words, and naming the identical student he was to pray for. He went in obedience and a revelation was given concerning the student's life and future ministry. After this a long prophecy was given with minute details concerning the great thing God was about to do. The pattern for the revival and many details concerning it were given" (Hyatt 1997:187-8).

They spent Friday studying the Scriptures for insight into these events, and then Ern Hawtin reported that on Saturday 14 February, "It seemed that all Heaven broke loose upon our souls, and heaven came down to greet us. Soon a visible manifestation of gifts was received when candidates were prayed over, and many as a result were healed, as gifts of healing were received (Hyatt 1997:188). He continued, "Day after day the Glory and power of God came among us. Great repentance, humbling, fasting and prayer prevailed in everyone" (Riss 1988:112-113).

Through their publications, camp meetings, conventions and visits of pastors and teachers from Sharon to churches and meetings across Canada and America thousands were touched by God in this fresh outpouring of his Spirit. Stanley Frodsham, then editor of the Assemblies of God magazine the Pentecostal Evangel, visited churches touched by this revival and gave it strong support.

Many Pentecostal denominations rejected this move which emphasized laying on of hands for the impartation of spiritual gifts, the recognition of apostles and prophets in the church, and the gift of prophecy for directing and commissioning ministerial candidates and for church government. However, the Latter Rain revival and the healing revivals through the fifties had a strong influence on the charismatic renewal of the sixties and seventies.



1949

Hebrides Islands, Scotland (Duncan Campbell)

Following the trauma of World War II, spiritual life was at a low ebb in the Scottish Hebrides. By 1949 Peggy and Christine Smith (84 and 82) had prayed constantly for revival in their cottage near Barvas village on the Isle of Lewis, the largest of the Hebrides Islands in the bleak north west of Scotland. God showed Peggy in a dream that revival was coming. Months later, early one winter's morning as the sisters were praying, God give them an unshakeable conviction that revival was near.

Peggy asked her minister James Murray Mackay to call the church leaders to prayer. Three nights a week the leaders prayed together for months. One night, having begun to pray at 10 p.m., a young deacon from the Free Church read Psalm 24 and challenged everyone to be clean before God. As they waited on God his awesome presence swept over them in the barn at 4 a.m.

Mackay invited Duncan Campbell to come and lead meetings. Within two weeks he came. God had intervened and changed Duncan's plans and commitments. At the close of his first meeting in the Presbyterian church in Barvas the travel weary preacher was invited to join an all night prayer meeting! Thirty people gathered for prayer in a nearby cottage. Duncan Campbell described it:

'God was beginning to move, the heavens were opening, we were there on our faces before God. Three o'clock in the morning came, and GOD SWEPT IN. About a dozen men and women lay prostrate on the floor, speechless. Something had happened; we knew that the forces of darkness were going to be driven back, and men were going to be delivered. We left the cottage at 3 am to discover men and women seeking God. I walked along a country road, and found three men on their faces, crying to God for mercy. There was a light in every home, no one seemed to think of sleep (Whittaker 1984:159).

When Duncan and his friends arrived at the church that morning it was already crowded. People had gathered from all over the island, some coming in buses and vans. No one discovered who told them to come. God led them. Large numbers were converted as God's Spirit convicted multitudes of sin, many lying prostrate, many weeping. After that amazing day in the church, Duncan pronounced the benediction, but then a young man began to pray aloud. He prayed for 45 minutes. Again the church filled with people repenting and the service continued till 4 am the next morning before Duncan could pronounce the benediction again.

'Even then he was unable to go home to bed. As he was leaving the church a messenger told him, "Mr. Campbell, people are gathered at the police station, from the other end of the parish; they are in great spiritual distress. Can anyone here come along and pray with them?"

Campbell went and what a sight met him. Under the still starlit sky he found men and women on the road, others by the side of a cottage, and some behind a peat stack ­ all crying to God for mercy. The revival had come.

'That went on for five weeks with services from early morning until late at night ­ or into the early hours of the morning. Then it spread to the neighbouring parishes. What had happened

in Barvas was repeated over and over again. Duncan Campbell said that a feature of the revival was the overwhelming sense of the presence of God. His sacred presence was everywhere' (Whittaker 1984:160).

That move of God in answer to prevailing prayer continued in the area into the fifties and peaked again on the previously resistant island of North Uist in 1957. Meetings were again crowded and night after night people cried out to God for salvation.



1951

Monday 4 June - City Bell, Argentina (Ed Miller)

A young man, Alexander, and his band of rebels sat in the front row of a revival meeting in Buenos Aires aiming to disrupt it. God convicted him and he repented. His gang began to leave but fell under the Spirit on the way out. All were converted. Two of them later went to Bible School.

Ed Miller taught at the Bible Training Institute in the little town of City Bell, just outside Buenos Aires. In June he was led to cancel lectures so the whole Bible School could pray every day. He announced this on the first Sunday in June.

Alexander, the former rebel, 'a teenager of Polish descent, was still in prayer long after midnight when he sensed a strange feeling of something pressing down upon him, an intense great light surrounding him and a heavenly being enfolding him. The boy was terrified and fled back to the Institute.

'The heavenly visitor entered the Institute with him, and in a few moments all the students were awake with the fear of God upon them. They began to cry out in repentance as God by his Spirit dealt with them. The next day the Spirit of God came again upon Alexander as he was given prophecies of God's moving in far off countries. The following day Alexander again saw the Lord in the Spirit, but this time he began to speak slowly and distinctly the words he heard from the angel of God. No one could understand what he was saying, however, until another lad named Celsio (with even less education than Alexander), overcome with the Spirit of God markedly upon him, began to interpret.. These communications (written because he choked up when he tried to talk) were a challenge from God to pray and indeed the Institute became a centre of prayer till the vacation time, when teams went out to preach the kingdom. It was the beginning of new stirrings of the Spirit across the land' (Pytches 1989:49­51).

The Bible Institute continued in prayer for four months, 8­10 hours a day, with constant weeping. Bricks became saturated with tears. One student prayed against a plaster wall daily, weeping. After six hours his tear stains reached floor. After eight hours his tears began to form a puddle on floor.

Two students went to a town, wept and prayed for three to four weeks. Then the Holy Spirit led them to hold tent meetings which filled the tent. The Lord moved on the crowds powerfully.

Prophecies given to the Bible School told of God filling the largest auditoriums and stadiums. That happened within three years with the visit of Tommy Hicks. Crowds of 25,000, then 180,000 gathered at his meetings.

Tommy Hicks was conducting a series of meetings in California in 1952 when God showed him a vision. While he was praying he saw a map of South America covered with a vast field of golden wheat ripe for harvesting. The wheat turned into human beings calling him to come and help them.

He wrote in his Bible a prophecy he received about going by air to that land before two summers passed. Three months later, after an evangelistic crusade, a pastor's wife in California gave that same prophecy to him that he had written down. He was invited to Argentina in 1954 and had enough money to buy a one way air ticket to Buenos Aires.

On his way there after meetings in Chile, the word Peron came to his mind. He asked the air stewardess if she knew what it meant. She told him Peron was the President of Argentina. After he made an appointment with the Minister of Religion, wanting to see the President, he prayed for the Minister's secretary who was limping. He was healed. So the Minister made an appointment for Hicks to see the President. Through prayer the President was healed of an ugly eczema and gave Hicks the use of a stadium and free access to the state radio and press. The crusade was a spiritual breakthrough and led to a period of very rapid church growth in Argentina.



1965

Sunday 26 September - Soe, Timor (Mel Tari)

A rebellious young man had received a vision of the Lord who commanded him to repent, burn his fetishes, and confess his sins in church in Soe, Timor. He did. He challenged others to do the same. Hundreds did. He chose 23 young people who formed an evangelistic team, Team 1. They gave themselves full time to visiting churches and villages and saw thousands converted with multitudes healed and delivered. In one town alone they saw 9,000 people converted in two weeks.

Another young man, Mel Tari witnessed this visitation of God and later became part of Team 42. He attended the Reformed Church in Soe, a mountain town of about 5,000 people, when the revival broke out there on Sunday 26 September 1965. That night, as at Pentecost, people heard the sound of a tornado wind and flames on the church building prompted police to set off the fire alarm to summon the volunteer fire fighters. Many were converted that night, many filled with the Spirit including speaking in tongues, including English. By midnight teams of lay people had been organised to begin spreading the gospel the next day. Eventually, about 90 evangelistic teams were formed which functioned powerfully with spiritual gifts. Healings and evangelism increased dramatically. Specific directions from the Lord led the teams into powerful ministry with thousands becoming Christians. They saw many healings, miracles such as water being turned to non­alcoholic wine for communion, some instantaneous healings, deliverance from witchcraft and demonic powers, and some people raised from death through prayer.

1970

Tuesday 3 February - Asbury College, Wilmore, Kentucky

A revival broke out in Asbury College in Wilmore, Kentucky, on Tuesday 3 February 1970. The regular morning chapel commencing at 10 o'clock saw God move on the students in such a way that many came weeping to the front to kneel in repentance, others gave testimonies including confession of sin, and all this was mixed with spontaneous singing. Lectures were cancelled for the day as the auditorium filled with over 1,000 people. Few left for meals. By midnight over 500 still remained praying and worshipping. Several hundred committed their lives to Christ that day. By 6 a.m. next morning 75 students were still praying in the hall, and through the Wednesday it filled again as all lectures were again cancelled for the day. The time was filled with praying, singing, confessions and testimonies.

As they continued in prayer that week many students felt called to share what was happening with other colleges and churches. Invitations were coming from around the country as news of the revival spread. So teams went out from the next weekend to tell the story and give their testimonies. Almost half the student body of 1000 was involved in the teams witnessing about the revival. In the first week after the revival began teams of students visited 16 states by invitation and saw several thousand conversions through their witnessing. After six weeks over 1,000 teams had gone from the college to witness, some of these into Latin America with finance provided by the home churches of the students. In addition, the neighbouring Theological Seminary sent out several hundred teams of their students who had also been caught up in this revival.

Those remaining at the college prayed for the teams and gladly heard their reports on their return. The Holy Spirit did similar things wherever they went. So that revival spread. The college remained a centre of the revival with meetings continuing at night and weekends there along with spontaneous prayer groups meeting every day. Hundreds of people kept coming to the college to see this revival and participate in it. They took reports and their own testimonies of changed lives back to their churches or colleges so sharing in the spread of the revival.

Revival also spread among the hippie drop-outs in the early seventies. Thousands were converted in mass rallies on he beaches and in halls. They developed their own Jesus People magazines, music and evangelism.



1970

July-August - Solomon Islands (Muri Thompson)

Muri Thompson, a Maori evangelist from New Zealand, visited the Solomons in July and August 1970 where the church had already experienced significant renewal and was praying for revival. Many of these Christians were former warriors and cannibals gradually won to Christ in spite of initial hostility and the martyrdom of early missionaries and indigenous evangelists.

Beginning at Honiara, the capital, Muri spent two months visiting churches and centres on the islands. Initially the national leaders and missionaries experienced deep conviction and repentance, publicly acknowledging their wrong attitudes. It was very humbling. A new unity and harmony transformed their relationships, and little things which destroyed that unity were openly confessed with forgiveness sought and given.

Then in the last two weeks of these meetings the Holy Spirit moved even more powerfully in the meetings with more deep repentance and weeping, sometimes even before the visiting team arrived. At one meeting the Spirit of God came upon everyone after the message in a time of silent prayer when the sound of a gale came above the gathering of 2000 people.

Multitudes were broken, melted and cleansed, including people who had been strongly opposed to the Lord. Weeping turned to joyful singing. Everywhere people were talking about what the Lord had done to them. Many received healings and deliverance from bondage to evil spirits. Marriages were restored and young rebels transformed.

Everywhere people were praying together every day. They had a new hunger for God's Word. People were sensitive to the Spirit and wanted to be transparently honest and open with God and one another.

Teams from these areas visited other islands, and the revival caught fire there also. Eventually pastors from the Solomons were visiting other Pacific countries and seeing similar moves of God there also.



1971

Wednesday 13 October - Saskatoon, Canada (Bill McCleod)

Bill McCleod invited the twin evangelists Ralph and Lou Sutera to speak at his church in Saskatoon. Revival broke out with their visit which began on Wednesday 13 October 1971. By the weekend an amazing spirit gripped the people. Many confessed their sins publicly. The first to do so were the twelve counsellors chosen to pray with inquirers. Numbers grew rapidly till the meetings had to be moved to a larger church building and then to the Civic Auditorium seating 2000.

The meetings lasted many hours. People did not want to leave. Some stayed on for a later meeting called the Afterglow. Here people received prayer and counsel from the group as they continued to worship God and pray together. Humble confession of sin and reconciliations were common. Many were converted.

Taxi drivers became amazed that people were getting cabs home from church late into the night or early into the morning. Others were calling for taxis to take them to church late into the night as they were convicted by the Lord. Young people featured prominently. Almost half those converted were young. They gave testimonies of lives that had been cleaned up by God and how relationships with their families were restored. The atmosphere in schools and colleges changed from rebellion and cheating to co­operation with many Bible study and prayer groups forming in the schools and universities.

Criminals were also confessing their sins and giving themselves up to the police. Restitution was common. People payed long overdue bills. Some businesses opened new accounts to account for the conscience money being paid to them. Those who cheated at restaurants or hotels returned to pay their full bill. Stolen goods were returned.

Christians found a new radical honesty in their lives. Pride and jealousies were confessed and transformed into humility and love. As people prayed for one another with new tenderness and compassion many experienced healings and deliverance.

Not all welcomed the revival. Some churches remained untouched by it or hostile to it. This seems common to all revivals.

1973

September - Phnom Penh, Cambodia (Todd Burke)

In September 1973 Todd Burke arrived in Cambodia on a one week visitor's visa. Just 23 years old, he felt a strong call from God to minister there, the only charismatic missionary in the country. Beginning with two English classes a day, conducted through an interpreter, he taught from the Good News Bible. Those interested in knowing more about Jesus stayed after class and he saw daily conversions and people filled with the Spirit and healed. Revival broke out in the war torn capital of Phnom Penh and rapidly spread to surrounding areas.

During that September Todd's wife DeAnn joined him, they received permission to stay in the country, and mounted a three day crusade in a stadium where thousands attended and hundreds were saved and healed supernaturally. A powerful church spread through a network of small house churches. Todd met with the leaders of these groups at early morning prayer meetings every day at 6 am. Most pastors were voluntary workers holding normal jobs. Some cycled in from the country and returned for work each morning. Healings, miracles and deliverance from demonic powers were regular events, attracting new converts who in turn were filled with the power of the Spirit and soon began witnessing and praying for others.

When the country fell to the communists in 1975 the Burkes had to leave. They left behind an amazing church anointed by the power of God before it was buried by going underground to survive.



1973

Sunday 16 September - Enga District, Papua New Guinea

Prayer meetings began among pastors, missionaries and Bible College students in the Baptist mission area among Engas of the Western Highlands of Papua New Guinea in the early 1970s owing to the low spiritual state in the churches. This prayer movement spread to the villages. In some villages people agreed to pray together everyday until God sent new life to the church.

During September 1973 pastors from the Solomon Islands and Enga students who were studying at the Christian Leaders Training College visited the Enga churches. Revival broke out in many villages on Sunday 16 September. Many hundreds of people, deeply convicted of sin, repented and were reconciled to God and others with great joy.

Pastors in one area held a retreat from Monday to Wednesday in a forest which previously had been sacred for animistic spirit worship. Others joined the pastors there. Healings included a lame man able to walk, a deaf mute to spoke and heard, and a mentally deranged girl was restored.

Normal work stopped as people in their thousands hurried to special meetings. Prayer groups met daily, morning and evening. In the following months thousands of Christians were restored and thousands of pagans converted. The church grew in size and maturity.

This was followed in the eighties by tough times. Tribal conflict, destruction and bloodshed erupted. Revival often precedes hard times.

____________________

These accounts are given more fully in Flashpoints of Revival (Revival Press).

Speaking into the air

It is just wonderful to know that His sheep hear His voice and recognize it, and recognize that of a counterfeit.
Praise You Jesus.  Facebook yesterday
 This is a man called David Ellul walking away, sandals in hand firmly convinced I am a counterfeit.  I hope the regular readers of this blog know otherwise. The conversation is put up here to demonstrate how you can have a complete conversation these days between two sets of Spirit -filled Christians and the the one layer has no perception of what the other layer is on about. I appreciate I wasn't fast enough in sliding my quickdraw confession out of my holster in declaring not only is Jesus Lord but also He is God, so this fuelled the last repost no doubt.

I don't know what a guy like Dan Bowen feels about a conversation like this. But I have huge misgivings about guys in ministry to homosexuals who themselves are not clear on who they now are and what Christ has done for them. To me it is exactly the representation of  Jesus phrase...you go 200 miles to make a single convert then you make him twice the son of hell that you are.    The tenor of this whole conversation is an almost exact reproduction of  1973 when Graham Pulkingham was pulling the last remaining hairs on his head out, trying to explain to our backwoods English Baptist folk  that the whole of ministry changes once we know "we have died and our lives are hidden with Christ in God"


Aldo Lombardi
Please all you Christians out there, support this Community to HELP OUT Gay men/women to know that there is HOPE in being Healed of their Homosexuality by our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, JOIN in come to the page and see for yourselves the GLORY of GOD in these former gay and hear their testimonies, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gay-menwomen-Delivered-and-Finds-Freedom-in-Jesus-Christ/167203529980152?v=wall
Friday at 08:159 people like this.
Chris Welch I see several young women,have you testimonies from men/older men Aldi?
Friday at 08:26Aldo Lombardi Hoping that I will find and add them brother Chris...
Friday at 08:29Aldo Lombardi brothers sisters you need to go to the page and click on the LIKE tab to support God bless you all
Friday at 08:47Holly Clark Hyatt I cant watch video..but I know of women who have been saved and set free from it.
Friday at 09:09 via Facebook MobileChris Welch The thing is it is relatively easy to teach a Romans 3-5 grace message and influence teens and twenties...the challenge comes later in people's 30s,40s and 50s when the core parts of our personality are challenged by the experience of Roman...s 6 to 8. I personally have never met a man in this age group who has left homosexuality to become a fully functioning Christ as me person.So this is a complete blank in my experience. Do people still identify themselves as homosexual but like the bishop of Lewes abstain....or not ,(as he transgressed into abuse..and became a media issue)? Does anyone out there know? Or because it is now even taboo to debate this field,would anyone come forward if they did?Carlos Iggy Shelton regularly brings up this issue in his blog Emerging thought in Montana.See more
Friday at 10:20Aldo Lombardi Chris my friend I think that you are a little lost and seeking in the wrong places, the first thing that you should have done is to click the link above go to the page and seek there for elders leaving homosexuality i just posted another one Former Homosexual James Hartline on KUSI: Leaving Homosexuality and San Diego Politics and also there is another one Former Gay Hairdresser to the Stars gets SAVED!
Friday at 10:29Aldo Lombardi here is the LINK Chris and hit the LIKE tab while you are there: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gay-menwomen-Delivered-and-Finds-Freedom-in-Jesus-Christ/167203529980152
Friday at 10:31Chris Welch Thanks for the link.I had looked at the ladies examples. A wellknown ministry called Mark Stibbe is setting up a "safe place" for UK ministers covering all sorts of issues which people could not risk sharing. In general the whole of the cha...rismatic move has no idea of the depths Jesus takes us to to bring us to the end of ourselves in order that His life be fully kickstarted in us.Whether its Graham Pulkingham sobbing for 3 months on a cold crypt floor,or my new friend having her family offer to pay £18000 to put her into the Priory as a Christian. Some churches run celebrate recovery programmes....but there is very little knowledge of the human condition that led someone as dedicated and "go for it,gungho " as the Apostle Peter to totally,I mean totally deny that he had had any contact at all with the man Jesus.See more
Friday at 13:47David Ellul Aldo the link you gave will only bring you to this same page. Am I the only one experiencing this?
Friday at 14:37David Ellul Yes even adults can be set free, not only from homosexuality but from every other demonic oppression. There are two pivotal requirements though.
(1) One must have a real desire to be set free from whatever it is he needs to be set free from....( It must be a heart issue)

(2) One must have a real, active, living relationship with Jesus the Messiah.

Those who say that they tried and have not been set free is because they love the sin more than they love Jesus.

When Jesus sets you free, you are free indeed.

In God's eyes we are all children, His Death and Resurrection overcame Death and Sin.

No grey area here.

If the Devil has the power to turn a Christian into a transsexual, surely the One who created the Devil has the power to set anyone free from any sin.

We all have been set free from one thing or another, we all deserved hell, but Jesus is willing and able to set us all free from bondage.

Thank you Jesus!See more
Friday at 15:03 · 2 people
Loading...Aldo Lombardi Sorry David they have deleted the page for the excuse of HATRED!!!
Friday at 18:08David Ellul Hatred??? I love homosexuals, just like I love every other sinner.
Jesus loves all sinners, He hates their sin. We, as His followers must aim to be like Him.
But then Facebook is not about God's truth is it?
Friday at 18:24David Ellul We have a powerful weapon, PRAYER!
Let us all agree with a prayerful heart, and lift those who desire to be set free to the One who has all Authority, Power and Might, the Lord Jesus Christ. That He will break the yoke and set the captives f...ree and enable them to live a Blessed, God centered life. We come against the spirit of homosexuality, to crush it and expose it to what it really is.
BE SET FREE!
In the Mighty Name of Jesus.

BE SET FREE!
See more
Friday at 18:38Chris Welch Please understand that in making the subject very serious and questioning you deeply I am seeking to make Jesus bigger still. The key for me in other areas that I could not find any will in me to change was the revelation of this verse : Go...d is at work in you to will and to work for His own good pleasure. When i "saw" that on my insides, I realised it didn't even depend on my will....which has long decided that rebellion is a good idea....it is Him in me. That's why, with some when we do these deliverance prayers... it's like trying to paint on wet or muddy surfaces....doomed from the start. His goal is not to make a non-homosexual Christian. Or a non-lying Christian. Or a non-stealing Christian. He cuts out the middle man altogether and Killed us at the Cross. I have died and my life is hidden with Christ in God. I am not a new version. I am a new species.
See more
Friday at 19:11Aldo Lombardi In THE MIGHT NAME OF JESUS CHRIST AMEN!!!!!!

I know brother I have complained and written to them and explained everything to detail and also the group Called **** Jesus Christ is still around ha?

Facebook about God yeah sure !!!!
Friday at 19:13David Ellul Dear Chris, That what you or I do does not have the power to make Jesus any bigger or smaller. I hope that I understand you correctly, when you say that there are areas in your life that are not aligned with God's will. Have you come to a ...decision to stop doing what displeases God? I think it is a matter of choice. If God is at work in a person, the person is in the process of change, if that person does not change would mean that God's work in that person is in vain. That is not the kind of God that I serve. Deliverance prayer becomes like trying to paint on wet or muddy surface WHEN THE ONE BEING DELIVERED FINDS COMFORT IN THE SIN HE IS IN BONDAGE TO, OR THE ONES PRAYING NEED DELIVERANCE THEMSELVES.
One cannot be a Christian and a homosexual, a thief, lair, murderer or an adulterer at the same time.
These are not my words, Jesus said that none of those practicing sin will even see the Kingdom of God.

The Blood of Christ does not HIDE sin, It REMOVES sin.

Nothing under the sun is new.See more
Friday at 19:56Chris Welch The blood of Christ hides and covers sins.The Body of Christ takes away Sin. This second Aspect almost has no teaching at all in the church and it is our true victory. In most churches are homosexuals trying ever so hard to live up to the gospel but the one preached is only the blood gospel so week after week people fall back without knowing Jesus came to give them a brand new identity through His Body death. This is why He said....
Friday at 21:49Chris Welch Unless you eat and drink of my Body and blood....and because this second stage is so hard to hear , nearly everybody walked off but for the disciples. Indeed your own reply shows you have thought you understood what I wrote...but I didn't w...rite what you thought I wrote...and your reply was quite patronising. I am trying my best to point you beyond "deliverance prayers" to a totally different level of teaching that the disciples only entered into after they had proved what utter rubbish they were at the time of Jesus crucifixion.It is only this level of teaching that will establish lasting change in our churches.See more
Friday at 21:50Aldo Lombardi Chris which part of the scripture says that the blood of Christ hides and covers sins.The Body of Christ takes away Sin. huh?

And you must know also that we have two former homosexuals at hour fellowship one man and a women one of them she i...s married now, healed because they have let go of their sin, because they have let the holy spirit work.
See more
Friday at 22:10David Ellul Sometimes one can feel he is being patronized when being corrected.
It seems that you and I come from different Biblical teaching.

When you wrote: " The key for me in other areas that I could not find any will in me to change" led me to und...erstand that you are talking about other areas besides homosexuality.

What are the "other areas"?

I am not perfect, there is still a lot of refining to go, I don't suppose you are any different, but then again I don't know you.
See more
Friday at 23:37David Ellul It was the Holy Spirit that brought the disciples to the higher level of understanding. They did''t go to a different school to attain that. It was the same teachings that Jesus gave them when He was with them. This time they received the Helper as promised by the Messiah.
Friday at 23:46 · 2 people
Loading...Aldo Lombardi Triple AMEN to that David!

the Gospel has a perfect example of how the disciples were brought to a higher level of understanding when they have received the Holy Spirit, they could not understand a thing before then, Jesus always had to exp...lain... to them what was going on, what happened at pentecoste? BOOM their were filled with the Holy Spirit the helper to come and they understood everything it was taught to them in 3 years and they went out and preached the Gospel full of the Holy Spirit.

They didn't need to go to 7 years of theology at university neither do online courses, our teacher is the Holy Spirit and helper, many Christians spend their time learn theology and seeking approval of men with certificates to place on their walls and then when you take a close look at their Christian walk you find that they have not found much time to let the Holy Spirit work in them for the renewing of their minds, and you find them walking just the same as when they were in the world.

So what is the will of God? to spend all that time studying theology?

or make time to spend with the Holy Spirit to change you in the renewing of your mind?
See more
Yesterday at 08:47 · 1 person
Loading...David Ellul You say you spent years with the Holy Spirit, Was it the Holy Spirit that you spend your time with that relieved to you that the Precious Blood of Jesus only hides and covers your sin?
Aldo asked you for a scriptural address to that revelati...on, but you did not have one.
Could this huge move right across the world that is doing precisely what you did be the great falling away mentioned in Revelation?

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim ( Latter Times) some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

I am a Bible believing follower of Christ, I do not fall under any man made denomination, though at times I am as guilty as any Pentecostal or charismatic for my rebellion (sin). But the Gospel that I have and adhere to is Complete.
When you say that the Body of Christ has an incomplete Gospel, you are sounding more and more like a Gnostic.

Are you?
See more
21 hours ago · 1 person
Loading...David Ellul Norman Grubb confessed to receiving more from mystic writings than from studying the
Bible. Apart from Boehme and William Law, other great mystic writers that proved a spiritual
help to him were as follows: Saint Teresa, Meister Eckhart, Henr...y Suso, John Tauler, John of
Rusbroeck, Walter Hilton, Plotinus, Angelus Silesius, Richard Rolle, Lady Julian of Norwich,
Evelyn Underhill, William Kingsland and Rufus Jones.
See more
21 hours agoChris Welch The incomplete gospel only partially works.Where you see the gospel working you need to get your theology from there, not because it is a different gospel but because it contains lots more of the verses in the Bible, and real light on those... verses. As you know ,the church spent nearly 400 years missing the baptism in the Sprit from Luther to around 1900.It read the Bible,but completely missed it until God's Light really shone on this subject. So it is with every corporate move. Only in Hisa Light do we see light.And one litmus test is how free are the people in our churches?This requires honesty and thinking "outside church meetings". In meetings everyone appears fine.
See more
20 hours agoChris Welch The mass exodus you refer to is twofold.One may be increasing apostasy,the other may be the ecclesia...the ever "called out" church, the next generation wineskin,before that too cannot contain what God is doing. The interview of Darin Huff...ord and worshipleader Heidi Venie is revealing and typical of thousands of others...see November list www,080808onnowto.blogspot.com
The blood deals with or removes sins, the Body death of Christ deals with the sinner.
See more
20 hours agoDavid Ellul Chris, you keep making comments, but fail to back them up, you quote man's writings but fail to quote the Scriptures when asked.

Do you confess that Jesus Christ is Almighty God?
If you won't answer this simple question, might as well stop he...re.
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19 hours agoChris Welch I not only confess that -my heart is that all the gays you are trying to reach realise they will never make it as Christians until they realise they're never expected to, it's Christ who will be living their life....which is why it will work!!!
19 hours agoDavid Ellul Any sinner whether homosexual, lair, or corrupter will never enter the Kingdom of God unless he or she repents, turns away from his /her sin and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and God of their lives.

As I expected, you would not be able t...o confess that Jesus Christ is God.

You have been exposed my friend, not by me but by Him you say you serve and at the same time deny.

This is where I shake the dust from my feet and move on.

Shalom.
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17 hours ago · 1 person
Loading...Aldo Lombardi Chris you have neither provided any scripture to back up your claims nor confessed that Jesus Christ is LORD like David has pointed out, therefore from my side I will also shake the dust of my feet and move on.

Shalom
16 hours agoChris Welch Jesus is my Lord and you are a bunch of lazy people who haven't the decency to acknowledge hundreds and hundreds of scriptures over 2 and a half years of writing on my blog.For speed check out the study section in the left hand column parti...cularly by James A Fowler and Sylvia Pearce.
www.080808onnowto.blogspot.com
David ...try and get your words of knowledge more accurate...you will be causing a lot of hurt with you're lack of wisdom. Wow,I wish I was in a meeting with you under the anointing....especially after what you've been saying.Some hitchhikers once tried it on with me when I gave them a lift and God forbade me from saying anything back much apart from surface stuff until they got off...and then He gave me specific stuff which exposed them to the core...they turned white and never said another word.
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15 hours agoAldo Lombardi Mark 7:7

And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
11 hours agoDavid Ellul My speech is clear and not in riddles. The question was: Is Jesus
God ? You still have not answered. ...Many will come saying Lord, Lord.
11 hours agoChris Welch How crazy is that,this is the very verse we feel describes most of Pentecostal teaching based on the separation delusion the devil sowed in Genesis 3, perpetuated as doctrine to this day in these type of churches. When people use the same scripture to describe the other's view it is time to bow away and politely agree to disagree.
11 hours agoAldo Lombardi Chris answer a simple question:

Is JESUS GOD?
11 hours agoDavid Ellul Chris would rather bow away and politely agree to disagree that Jesus is God.
11 hours agoAldo Lombardi We know what you are Chris now, you know your fruits.
11 hours agoChris Welch The blog clearly shows otherwise. You are behaving strangely
11 hours agoAldo Lombardi A simple question Chris Is JESUS GOD?
10 hours agoAldo Lombardi Hey Chris you have made your blog your man made word, I guess we are still old fashioned ha? we still use the word of God as our authority
10 hours agoDavid Ellul I am not motivated by man's words, only by God's Word.
Holy Spirit has been gracious and consistent.

It is just wonderful to know that His sheep hear His voice and recognize it, and recognize that of a counterfeit.
Praise You Jesus.
10 hours ago

Tuesday, 23 November 2010

A Recent History of Psalm 24 - Part 8 :Havant Church - The Inside Story

To view properly click on the photo for fullsize browser version or below for Picasa Full One Page only Slideshow version

The video clips below are of myself describing this diagram and how continuous revival works using Havant Church as a present day example of a charismatic church.Without much external input, and certainly not aligning themselves particularly with any identifiable stream, the members set out as we did in Emsworth to seek God for Himself. Whereas other churches deliberately chose professional-style worship, if anything this church pared back to simpler formats of strummed guitars, and non-flamboyant singing. The calling on them was to seek the "hidden" Way and not to follow other's organisational formats and church building techniques. Some time during this procedure, God named the church the Turnaround Church. Without too much to go on other than adopting these internal attitudes, as well as paring back leadership structure some 10 years ago, and like the apostle Peter in the gospels, more by dint of failure than great successes, between them they have managed to stumble on perhaps the singlemost incredible key which I myself have built upon here in this blog. The key is simple, so simple most other churches have missed it:

The Key to Continuous Revival in a church is to simultaneously week in week out drive ever deeper internally, and then rise higher externally in worship at the same time. The internal unlocks the outer, and the outer is the glory framework which pulls other non-believers and believers in.Quite apart from the adventures and intercessions we get up to as individuals.

But the Missing Keys were the Two Goats at the entrance to God's Presence, and the need for a Name Change to complete the corporate "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob " revelation.

The Two Goats Message
How God has revealed Himself corporately in recent history as the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob
The Father has brought us forth in Jesus, bone of His bone,flesh of His flesh.


Extra to the Video message:How our thinking works.
A P.E.T. scan was carried out on a depressed person, then on a person in a positive frame of mind. You can see the results on this post.
Our conscious mind, Button 1,can spin like a computer fixing itself on all the "real" and "supposed" negative information being fed in through our senses and through media,friends and relations, through authority figures....you name it. It is constructed to build "rationales" to ourselves. This in itself is neither positive or negative. It is just what it does. The Bible says "Don't RELY on your insight." It doesn't say DON'T USE IT.

This is the trick clinical psychologists need to know, if they don't already. This section of the mind is like Microsoft Word. It's just where we write the stuff to articulate to ourselves, and to others.
The Operating system , like Windows XP, or Vista , or 7, or a Macintosh programme is hidden below it , well out of sight. This is the fun and games bit, in the sense that it is this bit that God has made for us to learn HOW TO LIVE. It is our "inner seeing". It is also our "faither".
In Susie Golman Cox's post - Faith Greenhouse I we learn that as a youngster she was "grounded" in the belief that God the Father was a good God, and could be relied on by extrapolating up from her own experiences with her Dad.This all went on in her Button No. 2 area.
When I was in Bible House one or two sisters were suffering from sexual abuse from their father. At least one of them was cutting themselves, both their skin, and their hair in self-harming ways.This was during the period that we had most to do with Ed Miller.
Ed and Jorge Pradas led us into praise and worship at a high level, as described in the top picture. When a meeting really takes off, people are conscious of the spiritual relities of who and where they are in Christ.
Seated with, and IN Him in the heavenly places, far above every name that is named.
So from this position of "knowing", the Holy Spirit might direct that the people of God seek Him face down on the floor, or seated or whatever.............the music might dip into background contemplative mode.
but it is during these times that FROM A PLACE OF VICTORY, He will begin to touch the "names that are named" as being above Christ, that are hidden away scrawled on our "inner seeing " walls, described in Ezekiel 10 :8. Tenderly, mostly, sometimes violently in the manner of ripping off a sticking plaster suddenly, then it's all over, He will deal Himself with these scrawlings. Sometimes a leader may midwife this process but only as directed, but mostly, as ED would often say of himself...IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS ! (How different from pyramid operators, huh?) In my friend's case Jesus replaced the abuse on her inner walls with the fantastic verses from Psalm 45:
The King's Daughter is all glorious WITHIN, she is transformed from the INSIDE OUT,
see how she's led in beautiful robes before the King!
Ofcourse it wasn't long before I got a song on those verses, which may or may not end up on my double CD.
Button 2 is what we are "seeing","believing", "faithing or reeling in by faith".....positive or negative
Button 3 is THE ACTUAL BUT LITTLE PERCEIVED TRUTH of every born again Christian.
The truth is this, as Andre Rabe and Francois Du Toit minister.......

Long before the first ever molecule, way off before time itself, somewhere in the Eternal NOW
the Father saw us IN CHRIST.
The episode with Adam 1 was for Him a blip in the ocean, for even before Christ fixed the bottom end of the Covenant for us in the Fulness of times in Palestine 2000 years ago, as referred to in psalm 85....righteousness springing up from the ground.....
Long before this materialised and effectively hinged things in practice......
The Father purposed us in Christ. Every family on Earth gains its Name, its Character, from the Father in heaven.
He took the sin spirit of the First Adam down into death, bound up in His Son. His Son became sin for us.
And He left it there , to rot forever in hell.

Today, if we are truly regenerate, born again........if the Father has genuinely worked this work within us,
we are something completely different. A New creation entirely. The old has absolutely absolutely passed away....the new HAS COME. Not is coming.
If it was Is Coming....we'd have to change Dave Bilbrough's song, and he wouldn't like that!!
Our lives are now Hidden,Bound up with,Interleaved with,Interwoven with Christ.
More interwoven than chocolate pieces swirling in a Wall's Viennetta ice cream.
We are NOT two separate schizophrenic beings rattling around like 2 peas in a pea pod at our spirit centre.
But the rest of our being has to catch up with the news. So button 3 may now be a reality for you, but either through ignorance or downright arrogance, your other two buttons may have not caught up with the fact.

Abraham was a type of this SPLIT reality. His Spirit calling. the Promise of a son, was all connected with his wife. So you'd have thought he'd have had the sense to keep HIS CONFESSION clean with regard to his wife.
NOT A BIT OF IT! He "sold" her down the drain twice, out of fear what rulers might do to him....oh and perhaps them, not sure....so he told a half truth....she is my sister.

If we do not know the truth of who we now are, by default we too will be selling Christ down the drain routinely.
If we DO KNOW THE TRUTH....I can safely bet, like Abraham, most of us still say the half truth to save face.
Yes I'm a Christian. I am Christ-like! Or maybe with more humility. I am Christlike sometimes!.What does this all mean ? Nothing really. Well apart from Iraq. But in a free country those words just mean you have chosen with your mind to believe the intellectual tenets of the religion which happens to be Christianity!

But we don't, for the sake of our skin, say



Monday, 22 November 2010

Faith Greenhouse II - by Daniel Yordy

Daniel writes
November 21, 2010


Note:
I have wondered recently, do God's people really like God? Or do they prefer a God of their own definition, going through the Bible and picking those things about God that fit their present inclination, either negative or positive, either grace or jeopardy?


I want to write an article called "Love is a Consuming Fire," before returning to the final three articles of my series, "The Unveiling of Jesus Christ." But I don't like losing people, not that anyone belongs to me in the first place. The majority of Christians, who prefer the jeopardy side of the New Testament, don't read my stuff anyway. But those who hear the grace side of the New Testament don't stick around when I share those things that God says in the New Testament that are not pleasant to the ear.


People cannot say to me, "Daniel, you're teaching things God does not say." Rather, they say in one way or another, "Daniel, don't teach those things God says that we don't care for. Teach the things God says that we prefer to hear."


Consider this one word, "that you might be filled with all the fullness of God." I can't get away from such a word, yet almost all Christians avoid it like the plague. The more you teach it, the further it goes. It has gotten so big for me that it has swallowed up everything else God says inside itself. Yet I see no end or limit to its reality through us on this earth.


And so I have this problem. I find it to be, for myself, an act of immorality to chose the things God says that are suitable to myself or to others and to use those suitable things to speak against the opposing things God also says. I am unable to use Christ to speak against Christ. I am unable to sweep under the carpet anything God says.


For thirty years I wanted to speak the things God planted in my heart, but was unable to do so. Now, I have this little window, this small ability to write to a few and to post Christ in me on the Internet. I can endure loneliness; though it is as the wearing of sackcloth, yet I can bear with it.


But what I cannot do is to pass from this life, to stand before my God, and to hear Him ask, "Daniel, why did you not speak the word I planted in your heart?" And to answer Him, "Because I was afraid."


That I cannot do.


It's not a matter of "I'm right and others are wrong." That's an irrelevant thought. It's a matter of my sharing all that Christ is in me, and allowing others to do with it whatever they will.


In this article, I want to share with you the incredible capacity that faith has to connect with Almighty God and with all that He speaks.


To read this letter on the Internet: Ever Increasing Faith
PDF Version for printing and distribution

Ever Increasing Faith by Daniel Yordy
Strength/skill is the capacity of the physical body to do work. My body is holy, and I can love God with all of my strength.

Knowledge/wisdom is the capacity of the mind to do work. I have the mind of Christ, and I can love God with all of my mind.

Faith is the capacity of the spirit to do work. I have the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith works by love.

These three things are the same, each in their sphere. When faith working by love is in its rightful place in our life, then the strength/skill of the body and the knowledge/wisdom of the mind also find their rightful place. But faith is not something we have understood well. We use our physical strength and our mental knowledge and wisdom to do work and to accomplish good things in the world all the time. But faith, at least for me, has in the past always been a sideshow, something private and personal, maybe, but certainly not a way in which I accomplish good things in the earth.

In a dream the other night, I saw the seeing and the expectation of God. I saw that my capacity to expect God equaled God's freedom to move through me into this earth. I saw that if I expected God very much, God would be and do very much. Faith is the seeing and the expectation of God. God Himself is Love moving through faith.


Then I understood that faith is a capacity of spirit that is the same as strength to the body and knowledge/wisdom to the mind.

The body is the simplest of the three. If I wish to be strong, I must do two things; I must eat what is nutritional and I must exercise in some way. A man who wants to be as strong as he can be will exercise endlessly, building up his muscles until he can accomplish great feats of physical strength. On the other hand, physical skill is developed differently. It takes at least a few years of practice to become well-skilled at some physical action. I am a woodworker and am skilled with woodworking tools and processes. I gained that skill by working with woodworking masters and by practicing over years.

The development of the capacity of the mind to do work is a much larger endeavor than the development of the body. We devote years of life to the acquisition of knowledge and more years to the development of wisdom. Knowledge is learned from books and teachers; wisdom is gained more from experience. Our society places great value on the acquisition of knowledge, with a path of 16 years of learning things placed before our children.

But a mind that is healthy is always seeking to learn, to increase its understanding of the physical creation and of the world and how it works. A mind that says, "I know all I need to know, I am not open to learning anything new," is a mind that is closed. There is a stupor of dumbness sitting upon it, and we are right to be concerned about such a condition.

We increase our knowledge by study. We increase our wisdom by study as well, only a different kind. Wisdom is gained by studying consequences and other people's reactions. Knowledge studies the immediate, facts and data and information; wisdom studies the long-term, it looks at the end result.


The development of the capacity of the spirit to do work - faith - is a much larger endeavor than the development of the mind. The development of faith in its capacities and workings in order to do good in this world is far more important to our lives and our future than the development of physical strength and skills or the development of knowledge and wisdom. Yet we hardly know faith; it has not played a role in our work life.

It is time that this changes for us.

Jesus said that faith is like a mustard seed. It starts out quite small. And for a period of time, it continues quite small. Yet the tiny plant coming out of that tiny mustard seed never stops growing. It simply gets bigger and bigger until it is as large as a tree.


Faith is supposed to work in the same way.


But strength only increases if it is exercised and trained. Knowledge and wisdom only increase with application and study and much reflection. Faith only increases if it is exercised and trained. If we do not use faith to accomplish work, faith cannot grow.

The strength of the body has a limit. We can increase strength to a certain level, but if we push the body beyond its strength, it will perish. Physical skill has a larger limit, but we understand that we can't learn to do everything. We limit ourselves to those skills that are necessary or that we enjoy.


The capacity of the mind to learn new things has no limit. However, our increase of knowledge and wisdom is sporadic and slow - bit by bit. We increase knowledge, one might say, by addition.

The ability of faith to accomplish God's will in the earth is without limit, since God is without limit.
More than that, once we discover faith, that faith is a capacity of our spirit in the same way that knowledge is a capacity of the mind, we see that faith grows, one might say, by multiplication. The more we see God move through our faith, the more excited we are to see God move and the more we expect God to do what He says.

The disciples cried to Jesus, "Oh Lord, please, give us faith. (Increase our faith.)" This is what my students want. They want knowledge of how to write to simply flow into them by virtue of their presence in my classroom. They want to learn by osmosis; just plug in the hose and pour the knowledge in.

It doesn't work that way, that's why Jesus gave the disciples such a cryptic answer.


You want strength? Exercise and practice. There are no magic pills that give us strength.

You want knowledge? Study - yourself. I can guide my students, but I can never "make" them learn.

You want faith? Exercise and practice.


Now, all of our human makeup comes to us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Our spirit and the Holy Spirit are one spirit. The faith that we walk in is the faith of Christ Himself. The life that we live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who loves us and who gives Himself for us.

Nevertheless, faith is not different from strength or knowledge. We increase our faith by exercise, by the right "nutrition," by practicing, by study, and by experience.

But here is the incredible thing about faith. Faith will grow. Our faith will grow so large that the glory of God will move through it and cover the entire earth. There is no limit on faith because there is no limit on God. To say "this far and no more" is to kill faith. Faith is either growing or retreating; it never sits still.

We use our physical strength and skill to alter the physical nature of things. I take raw lumber and I use my skill to shape it into a kitchen cabinet or into a home. People make use of my work and it brings benefit and blessing into their lives.

Strength is that which walks in the Way.

We use our mental knowledge/wisdom partly as a guide for our physical strength. The skill of my hands can run a saw to cut a board, but the knowledge of my mind can place that board where it goes in the larger pattern of a house. We also use our knowledge/wisdom as an extension to others. We share wisdom and knowledge with others to help them guide their own lives.

Knowledge/wisdom is that which pursues the Truth. But whereas strength is fairly simple, the pursuit of truth is more complicated. You can either lift a weight or you can't; you can either cut a straight line with a skill saw or you can't. But knowledge/wisdom is not the same because of the world in which we live.

God says two things about this world that must always bear upon our understanding. He said that the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one and that the serpent deceives the whole world. The fabric of the world in which we live is woven by a whole series of lies, big and little, all of which flow out of the big lie from the beginning.

An honest heart, a heart that is faithful and true, cannot bear to live under lies. There is a dullness that comes upon the minds of those who are content to believe and live under lies. They cannot learn and they reject the truth the moment they hear it. They have all kinds of witty sayings that have been fed to them by the lie that they use to shoot down any thoughtfulness or any honest pursuit of the truth.

Truth is not a welcome thing in this world, neither that truth which exalts Christ in us, His dwelling place, nor the truth that exposes the deceit of this world. Those who speak the truth, all the truth as God speaks it, are very lonely people.

But faith is larger than strength/skill and knowledge/wisdom. The capacity of our faith to do work in this world is without limit. We use our faith to prove the will of God in both heaven and earth.

Faith is that which births Life.

Strength walks in the Way, wisdom pursues and reveals the Truth, and faith births and gives Life. All of it is Christ.

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." "Christ is made unto us wisdom." "The life I live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

We no longer see ourselves as some entity or "self" separate from Christ. Therefore we look always with expectation to Christ planted in us, and we never judge ourselves as "carnal" nor do we see any part of ourselves as being something other than the good things of Christ inside of us.

Even when we blow it and treat others in hurtful ways, still we walk always in the full knowledge of the Blood and we measure ourselves and others only by all the measurement of Christ. Christ Himself transforms us from the inside out; transformation comes no other way. What we judge, we become; what we measure is measured back to us.

Let's focus now on faith. Up until now, I wanted to establish the understanding that faith is a capacity of our spirit to accomplish work that must be exercised in the exact same way that strength and knowledge must be increased by exercise and by study. Yet, just as the mind works differently than strength to accomplish its purpose in doing good, so the capacity of faith in our spirit operates differently than the mind or the body. Yet faith also works to accomplish good in the earth and for those whom we love.

Few Christians live by faith.
I did not begin to live by faith until about four years ago. Yet for decades I walked with God, learning of His ways, following after Him to know Him. I heard His voice, I sought Him in the night watches. I believed in Him with all the tenacity of my heart.

But I did not live by faith. Rather I lived by an unending stream of curses flowing through my mind. Curses that spoke shame, and "You are carnal, brother," and separation from God, not in big ways, but in little ways. We do not live by the big things of "faith," we live by the little things of faith, the everyday thought patterns. I always expected the curse. I never expected God's favor. I did not live by faith. God carried me, yes. Faith was in me as a tiny seed, yes. But I did not practice faith because I did not walk in the confidence and expectation of God.

I am, for the first time in my Christian experience, coming into a knowing of "ever increasing faith." In the past I would read about men of faith, including Smith Wigglesworth (about whom is the book of that title), but I would see the faith they moved in as something far separate from myself. Faith was something I longed for, but it was distant and unknown.

Knowledge was the same way for me. Once I was free from the darkness of my teenage years, when I was 21, I heard that the fellowship to which I belonged had started a college. In my heart, I longed to go to college. I did not know how much I loved to learn; I did not understand myself. But I secretly wished for college. I thought, "Maybe I can volunteer to help build the buildings at the college, that way I could be near it." But the idea that I could actually attend the college to learn, I could not quite believe. I was 28 before I sat in my first college class, and my insatiable desire to learn has not diminished since.

In the same way, I did not know faith as a way of living until the last four years. That knowledge of an "ever increasing faith" comes to me from two avenues. One is my practice of speaking what God speaks in the New Covenant - of speaking all that He speaks. I do not have the liberty that most Christians take, of speaking only those things God speaks that they like or approve of. I cannot limit my speaking to those things God says that are acceptable in today's world of "sensible thought." This is very heart-wrenching because so many of God's dear saints prefer to pick and choose. They want some of what God says in the New Testament, but not all. So when I speak the things God says that they have chosen to disregard, I lose their fellowship.

Truth is always a lonely path.

But the other avenue through which I have learned to think in terms of the expectation of God is by sitting under Joel Osteen's ministry. Joel continues to teach me how to think God's favor in the everyday parts of living instead of thinking God's curse.

Now understand - most Christians and most Christian theology demands that we think God's curse over our lives in all the practical little ways of thinking. I was taught for years in the move that to think curse over myself was godly and to think favor over myself was ungodly. Yes, faith was taught in the move, powerfully, but the mixture always came out on the side of thinking the curse in the everyday things with faith reserved only for the big things of life.

Joel Osteen teaches me how to think God's favor - the expectation of God in all things - in the little everyday thought patterns of daily life. Speaking what God speaks teaches me to expect God in power and in might in all of His fullness moving through me. We cannot have one without the other. If we do not expect God in the little patterns of our daily thoughts, we will not expect God as He reveals Himself in glory in the earth.

Faith is the expectation of God. Faith is that capacity of the human spirit through which God moves into His creation. Unbelief, that is, faith in the curse, keeps God out of the earth. Faith allows God to show up in creation. That's why faith is the only thing that pleases God. Faith makes God present. Unbelief keeps God absent.

Faith makes Christ - all that God speaks - personal in me. Unbelief keeps Jesus back then, up there, someday, far away from me. Faith sits itself boldly in the throne of God, remembering always the Blood. Unbelief remains in the outer parts of God's house, always inspecting itself and judging itself guilty of some fault and unworthy of God's authority.

Faith sees the Creator, the Redeemer, the Resurrected Christ inside the heart. Unbelief sees selfishness and deceit inside the heart.

Now, here is how faith works. Our two older children are now away from home. My wife and I extend God's favor over their lives in the expectation of faith. We are always expecting God to show up in their lives in wonderful and surprising ways. We are always expecting God to keep them from evil. When we hear reports of difficulties they face or of foolish things they might do, we do not drop into fear. Rather, we continue in the full expectation that God holds them firmly in His grip and that He is working all things together with them for good. When we hear reports of God speaking to them or of favor and protection coming their way, we give thanks, but we are not "surprised." That is what we expected all along.

I did not teach my son to "fear" sin. Rather, I taught him to understand the normal course of human life in this world. I taught him to understand the passions and turmoil that pass through him. I taught him that I, also, had gone through the same things he goes through and that these are normal. I taught him to always walk in confidence in God regardless of any mistakes. I taught him that mistakes are normal and that God is our Savior.

I do not fear for my son.

On the other hand, too many Christian parents raise their children under the spirit and teaching of fear. They are "afraid" of sin and its consequences, so they extend that fear over their children. But fear is faith in the curse, it is expectation. In the minds of too many Christian parents, sin is the powerful one, always close by and the Savior is distant and far away.




Thus when the children go out, they go out under the covering and the expectation of fear. But that fear places Jesus far away from their personal innards, far away from their gut. Therefore sin is the only thing they can know. Even if they may not do outward acts of "sin," they are still living in sin because they are not living in faith.

Rather, with my son, I taught him that Jesus is in his gut and that sin is peripheral. Thus he goes out under the covering of the expectation of faith, that His Savior will always be billowing up from within him all the time and in so many wonderful and unexpected ways. Should he sin - and what young man does not do foolish things? - then he is free to immediately place his foolishness into the Lord Jesus and to see only Christ in the midst of himself, and God keeps him.

But my wife and I, by the exercise of the capacity of faith in our spirits, continue to extend a covering of confidence and expectation of God's favor and goodness over our children, and we continue to hear the evidence of God showing up in their lives. We expect nothing else.

Joel Osteen is spoken against by so many Christians because they believe that godliness equals thinking under the curse. They believe that to think God's unlimited favor over our lives, that He always does wonderful things for us and in us and through us, exceedingly abundantly beyond what we ask or even imagine, in the everyday circumstance of our lives, is to practice an "ungodliness." They think that to imagine curse and lack and limitation over themselves and others is an expression of Christian "faith." And they are always able to find a handful of verses to argue their point and to keep themselves at arm's length from God. "God in His heaven" means it's well in the earth. God in the earth - not good at all.

Now, we understand that the purpose of physical strength is to accomplish physical work, for both need and enjoyment. We understand that the purpose of mental ability is to accomplish mental work, for both need and enjoyment. We understand, then, that the purpose of spirit ability, faith, is to accomplish spiritual work, for both need and enjoyment.

If I got a job using my physical ability to make cabinets, I could expect about $12 - $15 an hour in pay. If I work at a job using my mental ability to teach writing, I receive $37.80 an hour, which is at the low end of pay for mental ability. Mental skill pays about three times as much as physical skill. The work of faith pays far more. Obviously, we don't receive monetary reward for the work of faith. But we look at this comparison to understand the range of value that we bring into people's lives through our various capacities to do good things.

As believers in Christ, we are always engaged in good works, we cannot think any other way. We engage in good works physically, mentally, and spiritually. But our use of the capacity of faith to bring blessing and benefit to other people is of far greater value than what we can give through strength or through wisdom. However, James makes this clear - we never imagine that we are doing someone good by "faith" when we refuse to give a cup of water to one who is thirsty. In other words, faith does not eliminate using our strength to give; rather, it lifts the giving of our natural strength to a much higher level. Thus, when we give a cup of cold water, an act of physical strength, our faith also is continually imparting the river of life and the person who drinks the water to quench thirst is receiving far more from us than they immediately know.

Now, the final and most important comparison between the three capacities to work that we possess is this. Physical strength makes use of physical objects to benefit others. Mental ability uses facts and experience to benefit others. Spiritual ability - faith - uses the Word God speaks to benefit others. There are physical things; there are mental things; and there are spiritual things. Substance, in the heavenly realms, is the Word God speaks. The Bible, that is, the words on the page, is only the physical outworking of the reality of the Word God speaks that is heavenly substance.

At the beginning of my 19th year, God brought me back into a relationship with Himself and lifted me out of the harsh darkness of my teenage years. Over the next few months, the desire of my heart came free once again from the shadows that had hidden it so deeply. I wanted to be married. I wanted to be married, but I knew that I was completely incapable of accomplishing such a thing and I was afraid that maybe God had condemned me to celibacy by His "will."

Near the end of my 19th year, in the fall of the year, I was lying on my bed with a sense of the closeness of God. I cried out to Him, "Oh God, what is Your will for me? Can I be married?" He spoke to me then as He has spoken to me occasionally over the years. He said, "What does My word say?" I answered Him back with the only verse that came into my mind, "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." He replied to me with these words, "Is not My word My will?" That was the first understanding I had that God had placed His will for me already inside the desires of my heart.



[Do you know, most Christians teach and believe that the 'will of God' is something we won't 'like,' that it is completely other than what is in our heart to do. That is we are 'doing the will of God' we are going against ourselves. I can only testify of the destruction such thinking always brought into my life and the continual joy that comes now out of knowing that my Savior and I are one person, that we share the same joy.]

But I did not know that my wife was 13 at the time, living in a large Christian community in Mississippi. I had never been to the South, nor did I have any knowledge of her whereabouts. I did see her briefly, for the first time, when she was 15 and I was 21.

Seven years went by after God spoke to me that His word is His will. Then, again in the fall of the year, God spoke to me that Maureen was the wonderful woman He had chosen for me. But I could not talk to her and she could not talk with me.

Seven more years went by until the September when she walked down the aisle to take her place by my side. Two days before that wonderful moment, I stood before the congregation and I said these words, "Now I know that God does what He says He will do."

There was no possible way I could have won a wife except by a miracle from God. And there is no possible way I could have come out of the limitation and the difficulty of that path God Himself appointed for me except with the expectation of my loving and loyal wife. God ordained the path I have walked and He formed the one who would fit me so perfectly.

My conviction that God will do all that He has spoken in this earth, in this age, in our lives, right here and right now, personally and real in all fullness in us comes out of the strength and reality of God in the most important thing of my natural life.

Those who do not practice faith in all that God speaks cannot prevent God from doing what He says through those who believe Him. All they can do is keep themselves out for this time.


Faith is the capacity by which we expect the fulfillment of every word God speaks in our lives in all fullness. Through our faith, God Himself moves into the earth. The work of faith is to prove the will of God in the earth. "They will be done on earth as it is in heaven." God's will is all that He speaks fulfilled in the reality of this earth and this present age.

Let's take the word of the resurrection to see how God's people respond to what God says. God says that we are already raised with Christ in His resurrection. God says that we are groaning and hoping for a resurrection of the physical body that has not yet happened. God says both words, clearly. Unbelief responds to God in one of three ways. The most common way Christians deal with what God says is to put it all off to "heaven." That way we don't worry about any of it here and now, God's contradiction does not matter.

But those who move beyond "back then, up there, some day," those who desire to see the kingdom revealed now in them, pass through one of two further developments of unbelief. They see the contradiction in what God says, and so they choose to take sides, to pit God against Himself. They reason that if one is true, then the other cannot be true. They imagine that their reason is smarter than God.

The most common of these two developments of unbelief is this claim. "Resurrected with Christ right now is just 'positional truth.' Which means it's not really true in us right now, which means that we have to 'make' our 'position' our experience. So long as we don't 'see' the reality of resurrection, we must labor to make it real." This realm of unbelief is very effective at calling God a liar and putting us in charge of our salvation.

The other development of unbelief is this claim. "Since we are already resurrected with Christ, that is the only reality that exists. There is no proof of resurrection in the physical realm. What God says about groaning for a resurrection that has not yet happened is either to be interpreted 'spiritually' or, better yet, ignored." Fewer people choose this path of unbelief, but it also effectively calls God a liar while claiming deep spiritual insight for itself.

What is wrong with believing both words God speaks?


Yet I find this continual reality. It makes no difference what thing God says in the New Covenant, someone somewhere will find another verse God also says and use it to argue that I have no business teaching what I just taught because their chosen "set of verses" says different. Yet I also teach their set of verses equally as God speaking along with the 'opposing' things God also says. I lay the two side by side all through my teaching exactly as Jesus did, exactly as Paul did, exactly as John did.

Let me give a piece of advice. This is what I always did. When I heard someone teach truth from the New Testament that was not in agreement with what I thought God said, I did not go through the Bible trying to find verses to 'defend' my understanding. I did the opposite. Whenever I heard something that God clearly spoke, that I had not considered before or that did not fit with my understanding, I would start with Matthew and work my way through to Revelation, writing down every single verse that agreed with the other point of view. I have done that so many times.

I have always needed to know all that God speaks. How can I live any other way? I'm too weak and frightened to invent my own God. I'm simply not smart enough.

Those who believe in grace only must write down every word in the New Testament that speaks jeopardy without trying to 'explain those verses away.' Those who believe in jeopardy above grace must write down every word in the New Testament that speaks grace only without trying to 'explain those verses away.' Let God speak both words and let what He speaks stand.

So how do I receive the word God speaks concerning resurrection? I receive all that God speaks by faith. Am I fully resurrected right now? Absolutely. And I speak that reality with all confidence. Do I groan and long for a resurrection of my physical body that has not yet happened? Absolutely. And my faith, my expectation of God expects God to move out of eternal heavenly reality and reveal Himself in power in the physical realms of time.

Unbelief in anything God speaks, no matter how eloquently or how fervently argued, cannot prevent God from doing what He says in and through those who expect God in all that He speaks. I'm sorry, they are just not strong enough to box God out.

Faith sees God. Faith expects God in all that He speaks, in every word proceeding from His mouth, that He does what He says in us in this age and in this earth in all fullness. In every word that He speaks, in the negative and the positive, in the pleasant and the harsh, in the sweet and the painful. In all that God speaks.

All.
Faith expects God in fullness in the flesh; faith cannot expect anything else.

www.dyordy.com
daniel@dyordy.com.
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Related to these seeming paradoxes of the Word
The Vision/Picture  of the Suspended Orb