The paragraph in bold is where we began about a week ago, and there was quite a big thread posted by a handful of names.The first issue is who said there is a human leader over a church? As the Presbyterians rediscovered....it's errrr.....a presbytery of elders stupid!!!!
Secondly, and way after the Presbyterians, the outpouring of the Spirit in Wales and Azusa street showed the new pattern of leader in the Spirit, Evan Roberts with his face to the floor and William Seymour with a box over his head!!! I could paste the whole of the thread but today I wrote a direct answer to Paul Noble's question. Then posted more on the foundations of thirdlevel church.
According to my Bible if you can point to the leader of your church you are not going to Church
Paul Noble How would u justify that from scripture?
1. The Bible does not say and God appointed a (CEO) or pastor. There is nothing to indicate a shepherd as a governing authority. Prove me wrong or read Corinthian Elders by Jack Fortenberry which is quicker.
2. Jesus is the Head over the Body. If you are reverting back to a chief rabbi you are in the Old Covenant and have a synagogue.
3 and God appointed elders.....plural. These are the governing instrument but in the Spirit even this needs defining. God sent out people in twos because two is the smallest number of church.....of Kingdom....of I Am Presence scanned across humans and manifestly so. The independent self operates in lists and the Tree of Knowledge , 2 is the smallest divisible unit to demonstrate the flow of the Spirit convincingly.
4. The New Covenant is very clear. If you have obeyed the things Jesus commanded you have repented, been submerged in water to tell your body your spirit has died and been raised and announced your signing of the New Covenant to principalities and powers who are extremely legal, then finally been filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit. From the least, the first day born again, to the greatest you do not need to preach like in the Old Covenant, know the Lord, for you have all experienced Him and know Him
5.What are elders and what are they for?
What are they?
As saints gather and Jesus is there in the midst, they are manifestly in authority in the Spirit in that place. Consistently spiritual and recognised by all as such for bringing Word and keeping meetings flowing in the Melchizedek order they facilitate the rapid and accelerating growth of all alongside them.
What are they for? In a thirdlevel context of father ministries 1 John 2 Ed Miller who was one, described their role as a taxi driver to the throne of God. Once there they deposit their passengers and drive away. What Jesus does in their relationship with them at the Throne is none of their business. He is the Bridegroom and we are the Bride.
6. This form of psalm 123 gathering.....looking unto Jesus for the agenda of each gathering IS thirdlevel or normal church in the Spirit. Everything else is Old Covenant or far worse....pagan spirituality.
7. Unlike the current mess in churches remember the Jews have always celebrated Feast of Tabernacles and the booths were always a graphic illustration lost on our Roman paganism forms in the west. The booths were constructed with no ceiling. Because God is our ceiling. God is our Bridegroom. This is not new doctrine.....it is everybody on the planet who is wrong in how they do church .
What makes a thirdlevel church is either or both of two things.......revival Presence with very little need for human input......or the presence of one or like Acts 2, 12 thirdlevellers.....or father level saints/ believers as in 1 John 2 who can take you through to the Throne of God and leave you there. Either way there is very little need for sustained human input and the Holy Spirit runs the agenda of the meeting.
Acts 2 was the blueprint for church. It IS our foundation in the Spirit. The Government is upon His shoulders. Jesus is in heaven and He is the Head. Where are the shoulders? They get a mention in the Old Testament tabernacle instructions. The priests carry the Ark. We the church are priests. We carry the LIVE Presence of the I Am. This is the Government of God in the Earth. It is hermetically sealed. We enter into this government actively only by rising in the Spirit or being caught or raptured up in the Spirit to the very Throneroom of God. This is the new norm in the New Covenant when we gather.
1. Acts 2 was preceded by 120 in a room praying. All our gatherings are to be preceded by walking and praying as new Spirit born people. We are inducted into this priesthood, into Galatians 2.20 consciousness and the laying down of our bodies as the vehicle for it....Romans 12.1-2.
2. Acts 2 is repeatable see Acts 4. See the opening of the prison doors for.Paul and Silas.as they rose in the Spirit in song.
3. The preaching of Acts 2 is our foundation Word to all subsequent preaching. It makes it clear we are a new order of Joel 2 priesthood. It makes it clear that Holy Spirit manifestation and flow is the new norm. Even the confusion of drunkenness so.early in the day. But also the second seal of Timothy in the preaching......no holding back at all.....But now people.realise their new Spirit foundation their new Spirit identity how much are they hit when Peter preaches this Jesus whom you crucified.......has God raised.......
4 This is real church and is about legislation in the heavenly places and redrawing the lines of attack according to the hosts of.wickedness in psalm 2. The thirdlevel church of the Throne room enters into full on collision with things as they really are which absolutely is not the case in any of.our churches, which sit quite happily on the roadsides of every town and city and don't threaten anything.
5. There is only one Body in the thirdlevel church. There is the continuous overflow of.Agape in all the gatherings, believers sharing everything and continually in each other's houses.....for walking cleanly in repentance and joy to overflowing is safe.....and people.feel.enormously.safe with each other.
Everything God does is fresher newer and more improved. Every tabernacle area (and remember it's the heavenly one that is being rolled out see Hebrews) gets better and better. The outer courts of the Jewish believing was completely superseded by the Holy place type of believing Jesus was instituting mostly outside the synagogue system. It was better at every level.People genuinely got healed and delivered supernaturally and at least Jesus could lay some initial foundations of the thirdlevel or His union teaching. Remember the teaching and revelation come.first long before the manifestation.
But here we are 2000 years later and the Holy Spirit is now insisting on the BEST wine yet. The Rivers of Water pouring out of mature Spirit believers which He announced at the third feast....The mature feast......The feast of Tabernacles in John 7. Everything goes.from glory to glory. The cost and price tag may always rise.....But God's new things are always brilliant. And they always completely.supersede and fill out what has gone before. The glory of the latter house shall far supercede that of the former.
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Tunji Ayoade revised edition, latest model
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Chris Welch mark 3, version 1.03, also MACH 3.
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How many of you evangelicals and former now blown out Charismatics have considered this? Are you not now terrified of the Holy Spirit for this simple reason? Like the first time that Jesus directed where the fishermen should put their nets.....it was a rugby scrum. It was a free for all. It was dangerous. The nets broke and they lost loads and loads.of fish. Now.compare that to three and half years later when Jesus did the same with now broken men. They all.worked together, no nets were broken and they pulled in ALL the fish. So what was different? The same Holy Spirit directing? So what changed? Father level disciples walking in brokenness......not building their own thing. See 1 John 2. The reason why you are scared of the Holy Spirit is because in the last Move there were no father level people. It was a free for all with pyramid apostles and pyramid pastors......The whole thing was a mess......But Jesus had to begin somewhere just as He did in the gospels.
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Kimera Betz Life is messy, but with training order rules over the mess until it isn't messy anymore.
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Andrew Nwauzu Amen. Truly humility and brokenness in spirit can lead to a mending of any other brokenness. I like the link you have underlined between both circumstances, Chris. My food for thought this week. Thanks.
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Tunji Ayoade on to the third level of 100 fold harvest O
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Chris Welch It's like getting a new shopping bag. If you carry shopping home in a paper one, you can maybe use it once. But if you have a great bag you can bring all the shopping you want home. Thirdlevel stuff just works at hundredfold capacity, just as planting a proper apple seed grown to a huge apple tree with not just hundredfold return....maybe 200 or 500!!!
The SEED is the same Jesus....but if we shortcircuit Him, we don't get the 100fold results.
"The Government is upon His shoulders" is one of the most key phrases in the world.
Catholics have a carnal understanding of it which goes like this:
Unlike Talmud believing Jews who believe everything according to blood lineage with Abraham....though how the Ashkenazys strain this one, beats me...?(They arent related at all and they dont particularly want you to know)
Catholics adopt the same carnal belief pattern for some kind of unbroken line of succession from Peter the one who Jesus granted the keys to the Kingdom. The context for Peter's confession is conveniently forgotten.
Jesus spoke "Upon this Rock" I will build my church....YES upon Peter whose name means rock....Spirit pun you see.....but upon the fact that Peter had recognised God in the flesh in Jesus.
Isaiah 53.2 states He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven, Jesus said...kind of marvelling.
This is the ROCK...the rock of revelation...that is the machinery God uses to layer the brick courses of "the Bride which comes down from heaven".
This is the ROCK....not the disastrous Catholic line of succession of somebody being touched on the shoulder with a pole.
WORD does pass from mature Spirit people down through the generations.
But, as is true of all outer forms of Kingdom....IT JUST ISN'T LO HERE OR LO THERE....it is NEAR us even in our own confession from our mouths.
You can trace a Spirit line on my blog (lefthand side) from Hudson Taylor in an unbroken line down to all the people on the internet who grab what Norman Grubb was sharing. The internet is currently the odd shaped wineskin, or the manger in the stable at the back of the inn, that God is using to bring in the thirdlevel revelation of Christ in us the hope of glory. Really Steve Mc Vey, Paul Anderson Walsh, Daniel Yordy, and countless others are all unpacking this sentence....how it works and what it means.
Catholics understand that the government is here and now, but they have transposed the succession of Kings, to the same sort of carnal government of things that are really in the Spirit.
EVERYTHING ABOUT THE KINGDOM IS AT ONE REMOVE. It just isn't nor ever was LO HERE OR LO THERE in Jerusalem or Rome.
It's a heavenly order.
It's an order of the heart.
The bottom of the Jacob ladder can be held for a moment by the Fountain Trust,by the London brothers of the housechurch movement in early 70s London, by the Fort Lauderdale brothers before they started competing with the Pope for temporal powers....
But only while hearts are right.
Psalm 84 is the how lovely is your dwelling place psalm....well if you nolonger feel that way and become distant in your heart....Jacob's Ladder is nolonger secured where your feet meet the floor!!!!
The psalm puts it this way....
Blessed are the men whose strength is in thee, in whose hearts aret the highways to Zion.....
Now what's the manifestation of the government of God?
Is it as the Catholics say....wherever a person gives a tithe so we can run our earthly attempt at doing God's work for Him in the Vatican City???
Or is it as the psalm in fact says....describing thirdlevel operations of intercession.....
Passing through the valley of ]Baca/ weeping they make it a]spring;
The early rain also covers it with blessings.
7 They go from strength to strength,
[f]Every one of them appears before God in Zion.
Our involvement in the Government of God as priests is in the loosing and binding that we are doing in the earth according to Psalm 123......seeing what our Master is doing next.
It's not just simply housing every single homeless person....Salvation Army have tried that....nor is it NOT doing so. The general heart of Isaiah 58 is still so......but everything is at one remove as our kindly hospitable service to others, heart on their sleeve brethren quickly show and reach burn out.
We are not fighting flesh and blood.
We could learn everything about the Illuminati. Incarcerate all the key heads of the the 13 main dynasties running the planet. Lock up the council of 300. Try to ban all freemasons and upper esoteric orders.......
But without exercising our own Holy Spirit rights to enter the throne room, and come before our Father ourselves, and let Him unravel all the connections to the MATRIX that are hooked into us....(Deliever us from evil) then we cannot exercise our Spirit governance to sit with Jesus on the throne and bind or loose things in the heavenlies or on earth....
and just as quick Satan will raise another 13 dynasties to take the place of the Family line that date back to Babel, and have been virtually writing history ever since.
When the apostle wrote we are a nation of kings and priests God wasn't joking. Just cos evangelicals, denominationals and charismatics don't have a clue about what that means, because in the words of Paul to Corinthians, these brothers don't even "king in their area yet"......doesn't stop the thirdlevel church from pressing into the full meaning.